US Attorney’s Office Activity
The following is the sentencing and indictment activity released by US Attorney Christopher A. Crofts office of the Department of Justice’s District of Wyoming.
INDICTMENT/SENTENCING REPORT
2012
JANUARY
Jan. 27
Jan. 10, 2012 – Dept of Justice, United States Attorney Christopher A. Crofts, District of Wyoming
Northern Arapaho Woman Sentenced for Embezzlement or Conversion of Monies from an Organization Receiving Federal Funds and Aiding and Abetting (U.S. Attorney for the District of Wyoming)
Melody St. Clair — a 65-year-old, former Northern Arapaho Department of Social Services Finance Administrator, from the Wind River Indian Reservation, appeared in Federal District Court for sentencing before Federal District Court Judge Alan B. Johnson. St. Clair pleaded guilty to one count of embezzling or conversion of monies from an organization receiving federal funds and aiding and abetting. St. Clair received five months of imprisonment, to be followed by two years probation and was ordered to pay a $100.00 special assessment. Based upon the request from the Northern Arapaho Business Council, the Court did not order restitution. This case was investigated by the Department of the Interior and the Federal Bureau of Investigation.
Northern Arapaho Man Sentenced for Assault Resulting in Serious Bodily Injury (U.S. Attorney for the District of Wyoming)
Milton Trosper — a 41-year-old Northern Arapaho Tribal Member from Ethete, Wyoming, on the Wind River Indian Reservation, was sentenced by Federal District Court Judge Alan B. Johnson. Trosper pleaded guilty to one count of assault resulting in serious bodily injury. He received 18 months of imprisonment, to be followed by three years of supervised release, was ordered to pay a $100.00 special assessment and restitution in the amount of $2,559.00 to for medical expenses for the victim. As a part of the plea agreement, the Defendant also agreed to plead guilty to battery in the Shoshone and Arapaho Tribal Court in connection with this case. This case was investigated by the Federal Bureau of Investigation.
2011
NOVEMBER
Northern Arapaho Man Sentenced for Being a Felon in Possession of a Firearm
Joshua Addison, a 29-year-old Northern Arapaho Tribal member from the Wind River Reservation was sentenced Dec. 20, 2011, by Chief U.S. District Court Judge Nancy Freudenthal to 33 months of imprisonment and three years of supervised released for being a felon in possession of a firearm. The conviction stems from the defendant’s role in an altercation that took place on the Wind River Indian Reservation on May 23, 2011.
OCTOBER
Northern Arapaho men indicted for assault, arson, burglary
Norman Ybarra and Lamar Duran — of the Wind River Reservation appeared in federal court on Oct. 18, 2011, after having been indicted on federal charges. Specifically, the Sept. 22, 2011, indictment alleges that the defendants committed an assault with a dangerous weapon and aided and abetted each other in the assault; that they then committed an arson of the Arapahoe Baptist Church and aided and abetted each other; and that they committed a burglary of the Arapahoe Baptist church and aided and abetted each other. The assault charge carries a penalty of up to 10 years imprisonment and a $250,000 fine; the arson charges carries a penalty of up to 25 years imprisonment and a $250,00 fine; ; and the burglary charge carries a penalty of up to 10 years imprisonment and a $10,000 fine. Trial will be set on or near Dec. 19, 2011, before U.S. District Court Judge Clarence A. Brimmer. An indictment is only an accusation. In every criminal case, the accused is presumed to be innocent until proven guilty and the government always has the burden of proving guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.
Three Fremont County men sentenced (Underwood, Clutter, Humphrey)
Cheyenne, WY – Three Fremont County men were recently sentenced for a variety of crimes by Chief Federal District Judge Nancy Freudenthal in Cheyenne.
25 year old Jeffery Neal Underwood of the Wind River Reservation was sentenced to a total of 24 months in prison and 3 years of supervised release for his role in committing assault resulting in serious bodily injury of a 46 day old infant that occurred in March. He was also ordered to pay over $39,000 in restitution for the injuries sustained by the child.
18 year olds Blaine Patrick Clutter and Zachary Aden Thomas Humphrey from Riverton were both sentenced to 84 months in prison and 3 years of supervised release for their role in committing an armed robbery in April on the Wind River Reservation.
Meanwhile the US Attorney’s Office reports that 2 Ethete men each face 3 count indictments charging them with 2nd degree murder, and assault with a dangerous weapon, and assault resulting in serious bodily harm for their alleged roles in the August beating death of 31 year old John Michael Crispin, lll. The crime occurred on the Wind River Reservation. The men face a maximum of life in prison, $750,000 fines, 5 years of supervised release, and a $300 special assessment. A joint trial is set for November 7th in Cheyenne before Judge Nancy Freudenthal. An indictment is only an accusation and the men are presumed innocent until proven guilty.
SEPTEMBER
Sept. 15, 2011
James Lloyd Whitley — 47, of Lander, was sentenced by Federal District Court Judge Clarence A. Brimmer on Sept. 9, 2011, for felon in possession of a firearm. Whitley was arrest in Lander, Wyo. He received 24 months of imprisonment, to be followed by three years of supervised release and was ordered to pay a $100 special assessment. This case was investigate by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.
AUGUST
Aug. 15, 2011 — Press Releases: From the Dept. of Justice for the District of Wyoming
Northern Arapaho Woman Sentenced for Two Separate Instances of Assault Resulting in Serious Bodily Injury
Adelia Rochelle Jenkins — U.S. Attorney Christopher A. Crofts announced that on Aug. 12, 2011, 22-year-old Adelia Rochelle Jenkins of the Wind River Indian Reservation appeared in Federal District Court for sentencing on two counts of assault resulting in serious bodily injury in connection with two separate stabbing incidents involving different victims both of which occurred on the Wind River Indian Reservation. Chief Federal District Court Judge Nancy D. Freudenthal sentenced Jenkins to 37 months of imprisonment, to be followed by three years of supervised release. Jenkins was also ordered to pay restitution in the amount of $2,601.51.
Eastern Shoshone Man Sentenced for Involuntary Manslaughter
Fabian Tarness – U.S. Attorney Christopher A. Crofts announced that on Aug. 11, 2011, Fabian Tarness, a 21-year-old Eastern Shoshone man was sentenced by U.S. District Court Judge Clarence A. Brimmer to two years of probation with standard and special conditions. Tarness, who had no previous criminal history, pleaded guilty to being under the influence of alcohol during an automobile accident, which resulted in the death of his brother.
Aug. 11, 2011 — Activity in the US Attorney’s Office
Anthony Thomas Lincoln and Ronald Keith York, Jr. — both of the Wind River Indian Reservation appeared in federal court on Tuesday, Aug. 9, 2011, on a criminal complaint charging each of them with one count of second degree murder and aiding and abetting in connection with the beating death of John Michael Crispin III also of the Wind River Indian Reservation. The charges carry a maximum penalty of life imprisonment, a fine of not more than $250,000, or both, five years supervised release and a special assessment. A complaint is only an accusation. In every criminal case, the accused is presumed to be innocent until proven guilty and the government always has the burden of proving guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.
Aug. 4, 2011 – Dept. of Justice Release, US Attorney Christopher Crofts, Dist. of Wyo.
Northern Arapaho Man Sentenced for Assault Resulting in Serious Bodily Injury
Mervin Black – an enrolled Northern Arapaho Tribal member of the Wind River Reservation was sentenced in federal court after having pled guilty to one count of assault resulting in serious bodily injury. The defendant assaulted a man using brass knuckles, causing serious bodily injury to the victim. He was sentenced to 60 months of imprisonment, three years of supervised release and ordered to pay $14,023.98 in restitution for the victim’s medical bills. The defendant was recommended for drug and alcohol treatment as a part of his term of imprisonment.
Northern Arapaho Man Sentenced for Sexual Abuse
Garnett Rapheal Addison – on July 29, 2011, 25-year-old Garnett Rapheal Addison of the Wind River Indian Reservation appeared in Federal District Court for sentencing on a single count of sexual abuse for an April, 2009, sexual act involving a minor on the Wind River Indian Reservation. The charge carried a maximum penalty of up to life imprisonment, a $250,000 fine or both, supervised release of not less than five years nor more than life, restitution, and a $100 special assessment. Addison received 87 months of imprisonment, 15 years of supervised release and was ordered to pay a $500 fine.
JUNE 2011
Activity in the US Attorney’s Office: Released June 14,as written
An indictment is only an accusation. In every criminal case, the accused is presumed to be innocent until proven guilty and the government always ahs the burden of proving guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.
Wyoming man indicted for aggravated sexual abuse and four counts of sexual abuse
Norman Jame Bitsie – of the Wind River Reservation, an enrolled Northern Arapaho tribal member, appeared in federal court after having been indicted in a five count indictment involving one count of aggravated sexual abuse and four counts of sexual abuse, all involving a minor victim. The most serious count carries a maximum penalty of not less than 30 year nor more than life imprisonment; the lesser charges have no mandatory minimum sentence, but carry maximum penalties of up to life imprisonment on each count.
Two Wyoming men indicted for aggravate burglary and aiding and abetting, robbery and aiding and abetting and two counts of using and carrying a firearm during and in relation to a federal crime of violence
Zachary Humphrey and Blaine Cutter – both of Riverton, appeared in federal court after having been indicted in a four count indictment charging them with aggravated burglary and aiding and abetting, robbery and aiding and abetting and two counts of using and carrying a firearm during and in relation to a federal crime of violence. The charges stem from an April 8, 2011, incident occurring on the Wind River Indian Reservation. Aggravated burglary and aiding and abetting, carries a penalty of not less than five years or more than 25 years imprisonment and a fine of not more than $50,000. Robbery and aiding and abetting, carries a maximum penalty of up to 15 years imprisonment and a fine of not more than $250,000. The first count of using and carrying a firearm during and in relation to a federal crime of violence carries a minimum sentence of not less than five years to run consecutive to any term of imprisonment for the violent crime and a fine of not more than $250,000. The second count of using and carrying a firearm during and in relation to a federal crime of violence carries a minimum sentence of not less than 25 years to run consecutive to the penalty for the first count of using and carrying a firearm during and in relation to a federal crime of violence and consecutive to any term of imprisonment for the violent crime and a fine of not more than $250,000.
Wyoming man indicted for assault resulting in serious bodily injury
Jeffery Underwood – of the Wind River Reservation appeared in federal court after having been indicted in a one count indictment alleging assault resulting in serious bodily injury. This count carries a maximum penalty of up to 10 years imprisonment and a $250,000 fine. Trial has been set for Aug. 1 in Cheyenne, before Chief Judge Nancy Freudenthal.
Wyoming man indicted for assault resulting in serious bodily injury and assault with a dangerous weapon
Vincent Redman III – of the Wind River Reservation appeared in federal court after having been indicted in a two count indictment alleging one count of assault resulting in serious bodily injury and one count of assault with a dangerous weapon. Each count carries a maximum penalty of up to 10 years imprisonment and a $250,000 fine. Trial has been set for July 25 in Casper before Judge William F. Downs.
May 2011
May 25, 3011
Wyoming man sentenced for felony child abuse
Chandler “Chance” Shakespeare — of Fort Washakie, Wyoming, on the Wind River Reservation, appeared in federal court after having pled guilty to one count of felony child abuse in connection with events occurring in November of 2008. Shakespeare was sentenced to 125 days (about 4 months) of imprisonment, followed by 3 years of supervised release including a six month term at the Residential Re-Entry Center, where he will receive substance abuse counseling, anger management counseling and parenting classes. Shakespeare was ordered to pay $416.98 in restitution for the victim’s following medical care.
APRIL 2011
April 28 — Activity in the United States Attorney’s Office
Wyoming man sentenced for assault
Alan Michael Jenkins Jr. — 18, of Ethete, an enrolled Northern Arapaho tribal member, was sentenced in federal court in the District of Wyoming on April 25, 2011, to 21 months of imprisonment followed by three years of supervised release and was ordered to pay $25,000 in restitution in connection with his plea of guilty to one count of assault resulting in serious bodily injury.
Wyoming man sentenced for criminally negligent homicide
Anthony Addison — 39, of arapahoe, an enrolled Northern Arapaho tribal member, was sentenced April 27, 2011, to five months of imprisonment, with credit for time served, followed by one year of supervised release and was ordered to pay a $100 special assessment and restitution in the amount of $53,457.53 in connection with his plea of guilty to one count of criminally negligent homicide.
April 19
Wolfe Jon Taylor Willow — 25, Fort Washakie, an enrolled Northern Arapaho Tribal member was sentenced in federal court in the District of Wyoming on April 18 to 36 months of imprisonment followed by 15 years of supervised release in connection with his plea of guilty to one count of abusive sexual contact involving a victim under the age of 12.
MARCH 2011
MARCH 31
Two Men Sentenced in Connection with Death of Juvenile Girl Found Near Arapahoe
U.S. Attorney Christopher A. Crofts announced today that two men have been sentenced in U.S. Federal District Court in the death of a juvenile girl whose body was found near Arapahoe, Wyoming, on April 7, 2010.
Robert Spoonhunter – a 22-year-old Northern Arapaho man, pleaded guilty to the charge of voluntary manslaughter before U.S. District Court Judge Alan Johnson on Jan. 3, 2011. Judge Johnson sentenced Spoonhunter to 156 months imprisonment and three years of supervised release for the April 2, 2010, killing of a 13-year-old enrolled Northern Arapaho girl on the Wind River Indian Reservation.
On January 20, 2011 — Kyrean Tillman, a 19-year-old Eastern Shoshone man was found guilty of accessory after the fact (voluntary manslaughter) and sexual abuse of a minor after a three-day jury trial in U.S. District Court in Cheyenne. Tillman was sentenced by U.S. District Court Judge Alan B. Johnson to a total of 80 months imprisonment and 13 years of supervised release, in connection with the April 2, 1010, killing of a 13-year-old enrolled Northern Arapaho girl on the Wind River Indian Reservation.
The investigation into the death of a female juvenile was conducted by the Federal Bureau of Investigation with the assistance of the Bureau of Indian Affairs/Wind River Police Department, the Riverton Police Department, the Riverton Fire Department, the Fremont County Sheriff’s Department and the Fremont County Coroner’s Office.
Wyoming Man Indicted for Assault with Dangerous Weapon, Resulting in Serious Bodily Injury
United States Attorney Christopher A. Crofts announced today that Jerry Tillman of the Wind River Reservation appeared in federal court after having been indicted in a four-count indictment alleging two counts of assault resulting in serious bodily injury and two counts of assault with a dangerous weapon, namely a motor vehicle. Each Count carries a maximum penalty of up to 10 years imprisonment and a $250,000 fine. Trial has been set for May 31, 2011, in Casper, Wyoming before Chief Judge William F. Downes. An indictment is only an accusation. In every criminal case, the accused is presumed to be innocent until proven guilty and the government always has the burden of proving guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.
Wyoming Man Indicted for Involuntary Manslaughter
Fabian Tarness — of the Wind River Reservation appeared in federal court after having been indicted on a charge of involuntary manslaughter. This count carries a maximum penalty of up to eight years imprisonment and a $250,000 fine. Trial will commence in May 2011, in the United States District Court in Cheyenne. An indictment is only an accusation. In every criminal case, the accused is presumed to be innocent until proven guilty and the government always has the burden of proving guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.
Wyoming Man Indicted for Assault Resulting in Bodily Injury
Milton Lyle Trosper Jr. — of the Wind River Reservation appeared in federal court after having been indicted in a one count indictment involving assaulting a victim which resulted in serious bodily injury of the victim. The charge carries a maximum penalty of up to 10 years imprisonment. An indictment is only an accusation. In every criminal case, the accused is presumed to be innocent until proven guilty and the government always has the burden of proving guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.
Wyoming Man Indicted for Assault with a Dangerous Weapon Resulting in Bodily Injury
Mervin Black — of the Wind River Reservation appeared in federal court after having been indicted in a two-count indictment involving assaulting a victim with a dangerous weapon which resulted in serious bodily injury to that victim. In every criminal case, the accused is presumed to be innocent until proven guilty and the government always has the burden of proving guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.
Wyoming Man Indicted for Sexual Abuse
United States Attorney Christopher A. Crofts announced today that Garnett Rapheal Addison of the Wind River Indian Reservation appeared in Federal Court after having been indicted in a one count indictment charging him with sexual abuse in connection with an incident involving a minor. The charge carries a maximum penalty of up to life in prison. An indictment is only an accusation. In every criminal case, the accused is presumed to be innocent until proven guilty and the government always has the burden of proving guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.
Wyoming Woman Indicted for Assault with a Dangerous Weapon with Intent to do Bodily Harm and Assault Resulting in Serious Bodily Injury
United States Attorney Christopher A. Crofts announced today that Adelia Rochelle Jenkins of the Wind River Indian Reservation appeared in Federal Court after having been indicted in a four-count indictment charging her with two counts of assault with a dangerous weapon with intent to do bodily harm and two counts of assault resulting in serious bodily injury in connection with two separate incidents involving different victims. The charges carry a maximum penalty of up to 10 years imprisonment and a fine of not more than $250,000 on each county. An indictment is only an accusation. In every criminal case, the accused is presumed to be innocent until proven guilty, and the government always has the burden of proving guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.
Two Wyoming Men Indicted for Theft by an Employee of a Gaming Establishment of Indian Lands and Aiding and Abetting
United States Attorney Christopher A. Crofts announced today that Tyvan Allen Chee and Dustin Lee Eder of the Wind River Indian Reservation appeared in Federal Court after having been indicted in a one-count indictment charging Chee with theft by an employee of a gaming establishment of Indian lands and Eder with aiding and abetting Chee in the commission of the offense in connection with a scheme involving theft of casino property. The charges carry a maximum penalty of not more than 20 years and a fine of not more than $1 million. The charges carry a maximum penalty of up to 10 years imprisonment on each count. An indictment is only an accusation. In every criminal case, the accused is presumed to be innocent until proven guilty, and the government always has the burden of proving guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.
OTHER MARCH SENTENCINGS
Clinton Daniels – 46, Ethete, was sentenced for a felon in possession of a firearm, after pleading guilty of the violation on Dec. 20. Daniels was ordered to pay a $100 special assessment and was sentenced to three years probation with home confinement for the first two months of the probation term. The case was investigated by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.
Darrell Saunders — 35, of Riverton, was sentenced by Chief Federal District Court Judge William F. Downs on March 2, 2011, for conspiracy to possess with intent to distribute and to distributing 50 grams or more of a mixture containing a detectable amount of methamphetamine. Saunders received 84 months (7 years) of imprisonment to be followed by five years of supervised release and was ordered to pay a $100 special assessment. This case was investigated by the Wyoming Division of Criminal Investigation and the U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration.
February – 2011
Garland Wilson – 25, Riverton, was sentenced by Chief Federal District Court Judge William F. Downes on Feb. 24, 2011, for receipt of child pornography. Wilson was sentenced to 180 months (15 years) of imprisonment, ordered to pay a $1,000 fine and upon release from prison will be placed on a life term of supervised release. This case was investigated by the Wyoming Division of Criminal Investigation Internet Crimes Against Children Task Force.
Mickey Gordon Wolf – 33, Northern Cheyenne Tribal Member, was sentenced for an assault resulting in serious bodily injury and aiding and abetting that occurred on the Wind River Indian Reservation in December 2009. Wolf was sentenced by Chief U.S. District Court Judge Downes to 12 months (1 year) imprisonment, three years of supervised release, a $100 special assessment and ordered to pay $4,565.43 in restitution (jointly and severally with his three co-defendant’s) to the Indian Health Service.
Wendall George Moss – 25, a Northern Arapaho Tribal Member, was sentenced for an assault with a knife that occurred on the Wind River Indian Reservation in June 2010. Moss was sentenced by Chief U.S. District Court Judge Downs to 41 months (3 years, 5 months) imprisonment, three years of supervised release, a $100 special assessment and ordered to pay $24,849.85 in restitution to the Indian Health Service in connection with injuries suffered by the victim.
Jose Nava-Suarez – 40, of Dubois, Wyoming, was sentenced by Federal District Court Judge Alan B. Johnson on Feb. 16, 2011, for one count of conspiracy to possess with intent to distribute methamphetamine and cocaine, one count of distributing cocaine and one count of distributing 50 grams or more of methamphetamine. Nava-Suarez received 160 months of imprisonment, was ordered to pay a $300 special assessment, a $800 fine. Upon release from prison, Nava-Suarez will be placed on five years of supervised release and is subject to deportation. This case was investigated by the U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration.
Ethan Surrell – 24, Ethete, was sentenced by Federal District Court Judge Alan B. Johnson on Feb. 7, 2011, for assault on a federal officer. Surrell received 12 months of imprisonment, a $100 special assessment, restitution in the amount of $1,532.10 and two years of supervised release. This case was investigated by the Bureau of Indian Affairs.
Deloren Dennis Tillman — 36, of Fort Washakie, was sentenced by Chief Federal District Court Judge William F. Downes on February 3, 2011 for aggravated child sexual abuse. Tillman was sentenced to 300 months of imprisonment to run consecutively to the sentence he is currently serving for a gun assault charge. Tillman is ordered to pay a $3,000 fine and a $100 special assessment and upon released from imprisonment, Tillman will be placed on five years of supervised release.
January – 2011
Wolfe Jon Taylor Willow – 25, Fort Washakie, pleaded guilty in federal district court on Jan. 21, 2011, to a charge of abusive sexual contact involving a victim under the age of 12. Willow was indicted on Nov. 17, 2010. Sentencing has been set for April 8, 2011. Willow remains detained and has been ordered to have no contact with any of the families involved.
Michael Orr – 39, Riverton, was sentenced by Chief Federal District Court Judge William F. Downes on Jan. 14, 2011, for possession of a firearm in furtherance of a drug trafficking crime, conspiracy to possess with intent to distribute and to distributing 500 grams or more of a mixture or substance containing a detectable amount of methamphetamine. Orr received 183 months of imprisonment, was ordered to pay a $500 fine and a $200 special assessment and upon release from imprisonment will be placed on five years of supervised release. This case was investigated by the Wyoming Division of Criminal Investigation, the U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration and the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.
November – 2010
Stephanie Brown – 22, Arapahoe, was sentenced by Chief Federal District Court Judge William F. Downes on November 22, 2010, for an assault resulting in serious bodily injury that occurred on the Wind River Indian Reservation in December 2009. Brown was sentenced to twelve months imprisonment, three years of supervised release and ordered to pay $4,565.43 in restitution (jointly and severally with her three co-defendant’s) to the Indian Health Service.
September – 2010
Bryan Sanchez — 26, Lander, was sentenced to three years and one month in prison for an assault that resulted in serious bodily injury that occurred on the Wind River Indian Reservation in April. He’ll also serve three years of supervised release and pay a $100 special assessment fee and $4,171.73 in restitution to the Indian Health Service.
June — 2010
A juvenile – of the Wind River Indian Reservation in Fremont County was sentenced by Federal District Court Judge Alan B. Johnson on May 27, 2010, for delinquency (assault resulting in serious bodily injury and aiding and abetting). The juvenile received 18 months custody in a juvenile detention facility, restitution in the amount of $63,586 and juvenile delinquent supervision until the age of 21. The case was investigated by the Federal Bureau of Investigation
Trey Tillman – a 17-year-old Eastern Shoshone, was sentenced by Chief Federal District Court Judge William F. Downes on June 3, 2010, to 15 years imprisonment, 3 years of supervised release, and ordered to pay a total of $6,770 in restitution, for the July 6, 2009, killing of a 19-year-old Northern Cheyenne man on the Wind River Indian 
Reservation and the Jan. 24, 2009, assault on a 45-year-old Eastern Shoshone man. Previously, as part of a stipulated plea agreement, Tillman, who was 16-years-old at the time of these offenses, agreed to be treated as adult and have the matter transferred to the district court for adult criminal proceedings.
Mark James Sonnip – a 21-year-old Shoshone-Bannock was sentenced on June 10, 2010, to 25 years imprisonment, 5 years of supervised release, and ordered to pay a total of $6,770 in restitution, for the July 6, 2009, killing of a 19-year-old Northern Cheyenne man on the Wind River Indian Reservation.
Keno Jacoby Goggles – a 25-year-old from Fort Washakie was sentenced by Federal District Judge Alan B. Johnson on June 14, 2010, for assault resulting in serious bodily injury. Goggles received 40 months of imprisonment, restitution in the amount of $1,345, a $250 fee to defray costs of treatment and/or drug testing and 3 years of supervised release. This case was investigated by the Wind River Police Department and the Federal Bureau of Investigation.
Cletus Ray Moss – a 27-year-old from Arapahoe was sentenced by Federal District Judge Alan B. Johnson on June 14, 2010, for abusive sexual contact. Moss received 6 months of imprisonment and 9 months at the Casper Re-entry Center, a $750 fee to defray costs of treatment, 5 years of supervised release and must register as a sexual offender. This case was investigated by the Wind River Police Department and the Federal Bureau of Investigation.
hello i would like to know why all the above offenders they only got 1year to 6months in jail time along with a minumim fine with the crime that they did and still walk away free’ like whats go,ing on with the court systems now days thats what i would like to know” these criminals that did all this crime and hurt a lot of people all just got away with it” hell a dui, driver gets more jail time then all the above” these guys living on easy street” then they cry around about it” huh” thought they were a man’ sounds like whimps to me” well” in other words nowa days i guess you can go out and kill somebody and get a little slap on the wrist” and spend one day in jail’ but if you drive drunk your going to prison for life” i think there is some thing wrong here if you cant see it” pitafull” law system and court system we have” these guys should all get hard time up to 10years or life
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which ones..i see one got 40 months…thats 3 years+..another got 25 years, another 15, anther 3
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well im not just pin pointing one or two im talking about all of them that commit the crime, being on the rez” or off the rez” it makes on dam differance, where they commit a crime . and they and the law system trys to use that tearm indian land” huh. you take a life you, you hurt some really bad then you should do some time’ not month,s or pay a big fine” money cant replace a life’ and when they do crimes like these law breakers did thats a free get out of jail card for every body else” as well, come on now people gezzs” open your eyes” but maybe when it happens to you or our family members then you will see what im saying, short story” look at it this way with the little time all the above got that,s just a mesg. to all others saying commit a crime and you won’t get to much time” very sorry laws we have to up hold for the peoples safety” you kill you do time” you got on rights” did the people that they hurt have rights at that time”
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da judge been busy!!!
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hell yeah i say each and every one of these killers and crime do ers all need to sit in prison and roit” till there old and gray they need not to be out in the community to where they can hurt people again i say hang the (EXPLETIVE DELETED BY MANAGEMENT) and have them sit in jail for life” they all need to hang them by the (DELETED BY MANAGEMENT) if they have any and let them get there salad tossed with some special sause” yeah” that will teach them’
NOTE FROM MANAGEMENT: USE AGREEMENT — Comments that make reference to or contain inappropriate language, such as swearing or obscenity in any form–including “bathroom humor”, abbreviations, or “disguised” swearing–will be removed.
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I agree that many of these crimes are heinous and do deserve much more severe punishment, and yes I do mean execution, and life imprisonment without the option of parole. Our Justice system does have problems with administering punishment that fits the crime due to liberal agendas, and flawed belief that incarceration works as a corrective action. The Justice system is flawed but it is neither the source nor the solution to the problem. Both the source and solution involves the community and holding community leaders and family leaders accountable for instilling the since of right and wrong in the youth of today. Parents first, then teachers, and elders and leaders must lead by example. Unacceptable behavior must be challenged and corrected where ever it occurs and at an early age. Accepting wrong behavior and worse condoning wrong behavior only breeds more. Put you words into action in your homes, schools and communities. Do the hard work and solve the problem at the source.
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Well I do know out on the rez the system is just as bad if not worse. The young never learn accountability out here. Allot of this is due to broken relationships with the county, feds, and outside agencies. I always hear “Protect the Sovereignty” but I’m starting to think the crooks use Sovereignty for a way to steal and cheat and not get busted.
Some of the things I have been seeing our council get away with are at the best disgusting. Also ALL of you tribal members who are accepting money via “grants” to support this uneducated group of thieves are no better than they. You are selling your people out!! Your children, sisters, brothers, parents, and every Arapaho.
Our ancestors sit and watch in disgust. Our old are going without food and heat right now while you take a buy off!!!!!! The Old Man is watching!!! We will see what you are made of very soon. Where has the honor went?
The Council has dried up all sources of income starting with the Ranch. They then went after more money from the Casino. Why do all of you sit like scared sheep while these “leaders” steal from your needy people? For a few hundred dollars from a food grant? Even 1000, not honorable. No amount of money is worth being a trader to your people.
All of You at the Finance office and tribal building, you are a majority of the problem. You all get paid to keep silent by grants and bunk bonuses. The longer you keep taking the hush money the further involved you are. You too will be held accountable in the end. You cannot sit and watch complete fraud and remain innocent. Bank statements have already marked you! Even if the check is not cashed by you, the person who did will not take your fall. You are just as guilty as they are.
You MUST stand up and do the honorable thing. The Gossip has traveled far through the winds, farther than ever. It’s just a matter of time.
Sign that petition, make your own petition, get back your honor!!!!
Let’s fight to keep our Tribe out of the Mud. We have suffered too many major blows with all the murder of children and others. Our social service program in the paper. It’s time to take back the respect we deserve as Arapaho.
ALSO: The disinformation that is going around about our CEO is just a tactic to confuse all of you and keep you from the truth. It’s not this white man’s fault we are in this position. Sit and use your head for a minute. He is trying to build and develop our casino. That’s what we hired him to do.
The council would like you to believe that they are trying to save your jobs, nope think again! They are just prolonging this as long as they can so they can continue to line their pockets. Why would they not cut spending right now? They are chopping you (none supporters) off, but they are paying the huge families to win GC.
I still don’t think it’s going to work for them though because everyone I have talked to wants every one of them out, even some of their own family members.
Do not sell out your people!!!!
Ha Ho
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The only thing I don’t agree with is 3rd sentence of your statement. Accountability isn’t taught by the county, feds, or any other outside agencies. Accountability starts with the parents. In the home.
Everything else you said….I agree 100%. Bravo.
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good respose 10…i would have to disagrree about a couple things though
1. the ranch was not drained by this group of council…i have to agree with the termination of the ranch manager and direction of the ranch…the ranch was a total disaster of mismanagment, from starving cows to hundreds of missing ones
2. this is not a fed problem or state…its us…its not even so much this particular group of council…this habit of grants has been going on for a few years…its a huge issue…there are employees that owe the people 20-30 thousand in non paid loans from the 15% account
what i agree with is that the people …not all…but a bunch have grown accustemed to the tribe bailing them out for everything,…lose all your money..no problem go get a grant…get drunk and evicted…no problem the council will help….it is a distastful display each week as the same people line up fr grants,,,over an over, not caring about the tribes finances only demanding the council help them out…or else.
our elders and medical should be the only ones we help out…not the 20 yr olds who refuse to work
i agree that the people even the leadership that is working on removing the casino boss…are doing it for personal reasons and not looking out for the tribe…(NAME DELETED BY MANAGEMENT — NOT RELATED TO STORY) has done exactly what we hired him for…build the casino, expand our business, bring money into the tribe for jobs and programs. in his time here he has tripled the job oppertunities for our people, we have three casinos, a laundry mat, embroydery shop, resturants
how can anyone looking out for the best interest of the tribe want him gone is beyond me…its a business, you get fired from it..oh well, a business needs reliable people willing to work
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Kind of sucks not having anything to argue about with you guys.
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sofa:
Of course I agree it starts with home, but if we dig deeper we can also see a HUGE difference in the law/system out on the rez. Some of these kids do indeed get off the hook very easily out here. The reservation does not even register DUI’s with the state.
As soon as these kids get popped in town, they have a heavy price to pay compared most times. If the same person lived the same life on each side of the border, who do you think would be held most accountable? Knowing your gonna get in trouble is a strong deterrent. It is the law that makes us behave. Religion and judicial, no?
Remember Paul Harvey “If you want to get away with murder, move to the Wind River reservation”. It is very True for all ages.
When is the last time you have heard of someone getting caught for embezzlement and not being held accountable off the reservation?
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hii3oobee:
You did hear that they sold over 1000 cows to cover expenses right? Im sure they were under weight as it is barely spring.
From what I am told the council through the years have been tapping into the ranches needed funds to run it correctly. Yes the buildings need attention and they have lost some cows, but it takes money to keep a strong operation going. With the leadership for the past 2 or 3 terms it seems to be getting worse.
I blame the current council because they took office knowing our financial situation, but are not making the cuts needed to even some of the score. They still make 70-80K a year, accept hefty mileage and continue to pay grants for support.
I have seen with my own eyes past ledgers showing workers within the main office getting grants up to $50,000 a year on-top of salary. This was all over the rez a year and a half ago. So I’m not shooting from the Hip!!
The last council took $20,000 each in severance because they knew they were not gonna make it back on.
I know of 2 for sure that just took “borrowed” $10,000 from the tribe. These are not roomers. This was after we passed that resolution at GC. Does that not make them to blame?
This is one of the worst councils we have had in a long time my friend. They are trying to get money anywhere they can right now because they don’t want to layoff workers because they are afraid that they will get voted off if they do.
They are in a catch 22 here. If they don’t we will crumble and loose many, many more workers later. So this tells me they are just buying time so they can continue to get PAID!!! They are not concerned for the tribe as a whole.
This has been a decision the last 2 councils have faced, but they are for money before honor. They would rather keep putting the money out for personal gain.
Really to save the hassle they should resign or tell the people the truth and do what needs to be done.
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So, we should get rid of the current Northern Arapaho Business Council because of what past business councils have done? So if they resign, then the same old crooks will get back on.
So after five months on board they should have fixed over a decade of neglect? I think this is too harsh. If after two years the people do not want them on, then vote them off. Let them do their work, for what they were elected to do.
Maybe what needs to change is how the people elect the business council. Instead of at large voting, which allows the larger families to vote for who they want, we need to move to Districts. It can not be any worse. We also need to make an allowance for all of the tribal members who live off the reservation and can not run for a seat on the council. It is skewed towards people who stay.
The Arapaho Ranch is a farce and has done nothing for the people for over a decade or more. The ranch manager needed to lose his job, maybe because of his failures, maybe because he was not beholden to tribal members and their needs.
The Casino sure does make millions, but for who? Hundreds of tribal members have jobs, and the Casino General Manager keeps his job by scaring those tribal member employees into voting for him at General Council. Its not the first time a non tribal member has split the tribe. Those millions flow to the tribe for programs to employ more people.
I say let them all lose their jobs. And distribute the profits to the people, its about time. Over half a million dollars per year goes to our so called Tribal College. It has existed for ten years and not one day closer to getting its accredidation. Why do we keep an ex chairmans brother in a job? He should go work in the real world and see if he can make it.
I see the so called Council of Elders get hundreds of thousands of dollars, for what? So a certain family can run everything? We know who they are. Are they more Arapaho than everyone else? There is a difference between being an elder and just being plain old. We are spending precious resources on a bunch of old people instead of the true elders.
Its just the tip of the iceberg with those three who are being tried for embezzlement. They are getting in trouble because they messed with federal funds. How about all those who have embezzled tribal funds? The feds dont care.
We have a Tribal Liaison who does nothing but collect a paycheck. We have a Tribal Secretary who is not elected and been there too long, who does not return phonecalls. We have tribal staff who are rude to elders as they come in the door. We have an ex tribal administrator who got fired by the General Council and the previous business council hired him right back. We had a Tribal Human Resources manager who hired his own family and this family who had no skills are still working and on the payroll. We have a Tribal Public Relations Manager who got into an accident this winter, and we all know why. He still gets to keep his job.
The list can go on and on. The business council will be held accountable at the next elections, that is the way it is. But in order to change things for the better, the entire house, the whole tribal staff needs to be cleaned up. House needs to be cleaned from top to bottom.
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You have some valid points but I don’t agree with keeping the current council for 2 more years. We can vote them out, it has happened b4. Maybe then the others will realize you cannot keep doing the same scams over and over.
Besides none of the current council members are qualified to make serious decisions for the tribe. I know of some of the past “bad” traditional members, but even they are smart enough not to try and take over the casino budget.
I know many who worked at the casino and they were not intimidated to support the CEO. The GC has supported him every time we had a motion to remove him. All those people were not casino employees being scared. There were a few on the left side but it was 98% in favor to keep him. I was there!!!
However you make some very good points indeed.
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It will never work until they start being honest and layoff the programs that don’t seek any kind of funding to sustain themselves. They need to start being smart about it when they look at all the programs. What services are really needed right now?
If you do this you will see most of the High Priority programs can be federal funded. The feds as bad as everyone says they are, are taking care of the basic needs of people.
You cant just hand out jobs, they have to be created. Like the other person said the casino CREATED jobs.
It’s really not as complicated as people make it. If you loose such and such program, how does it affect the tribe?
By trying to please everyone across the board the price will be higher.
Choose assets!!! lol This is not rocket science.
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Hmmmm, we need a law and order code that humans go by, ya know, the kind that protects people from FRAUD, RAPE, and Murder. Like the real world. Rez needs ta stop making excuses stop the hand slappen. WE NEED LEADERS! Not phony go ta conferences and act like a big shot kind.
Our tribes need ACCOUNTANTS. Not the “i been here a long time I know what I’m doin” Do stuff right and we won’t have problems.
STOP THE HAND OUTS TO LOOOOZERS! Real men have jobs!
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4realman
AMEN!!!!
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County10 and 4realman very good points.
I am not saying the CEO of the casino should go, we should just distribute the profits. The tribe has malfunctioned for too long with the profits, let the people have their money.
I have a list of programs that need to be shut down, the money returned to the people and the employees sent out to the real world.
1. Wind River Tribal College (I am all for education, I educated myself at Arizona State University)
2. Council of Elders (We need to be helping our elders with homes, heat, and food)
3. Social Services (The tribe has failed at providing these services, the money comes from the state anyways, let them handle it)
4. Northern Arapaho Tribal Industries (just one family employed here)
Several others need to be seriously rearranged starting with
1. Tribal Housing (has been mismanaged into the ground. Fire everyone and start over)
2. Tribal Credit
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Right now most should be put on hold for sure. Mainly the tribal programs unless they serve a NEED!
Social Services should be put on hold until we can earn back the trust and get funded. As I understand it people are being sent to town anyhow.
We should treat it just like it is treated in Riverton. The programs are funded through the feds or the state.
As far as NTI I think we do need the IT knowledge and support. I’m not sure who all works out there now but trying to say just because they are related they should not work together is unrealistic out here. It is only nepotism if they are being chosen for other reasons besides their skill set. Some of the best companies in the world are family owned or run.
I know the director and he is a sharp kid!!!
I’m not aware of the latest with housing but I believe they receive federal dollars. I would vote leave federal funded programs alone as long as they are accountable and bringing in services for the tribe. Of course there are the bad ones that just get the tribe in more of a bind.
How many people do we need for tribal credit? It should be a position or two not a program. We don’t have money to lend right now, just need up keep with current borrowers.
And as mentioned accountants!!!!! Real accountants!!!!
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It can be argued that every program serves a need. Nothing will get done that way.
I know for a fact that the Social Services program is still serving people. People are still getting TANF and food stamps and GA there. People may be being sent to Riverton, but the program is not shut down. They still have employees who are getting a pay check. Its not about trust. That program is corrupt, the Director was corrupt and what is happening to them is deserved. We had our chance as a tribe to offer that service and we screwed up. Let the state run it if people want that service.
The problem with Northern Arapaho Tribal Industries, is that they are doing deals with no ones knowledge of what they are doing and how much they are putting the tribe into debt. They supposedly got a huge grant within the last year and were supposed to hire a bunch of people. I did not see one advertisement. The Director may be a sharp kid but his uncle started the business and who do you think he picked to run it? If this is such a great family, no problem, let them run their own business without the tribes dime and see how far they get.
To say that everyone is related to everyone is true if they followed their traditions. Most dont. Most dont even know they are related. Nepotism is alive and rampant in this tribe and its not because we are all related.
The problem with housing is that nothing is getting done. Now you see a couple of houses getting put up but that is after years and years. Housing gets between 2-3 Million every year in federal funds to build and rehab houses. What does it go for? Salaries. Before this new development at Ben Gay Heights, which is being built with stimulus dollars and not their regular funding, where were the new houses? None. Whose houses are getting rehabed? The only houses getting rehabed are the ones who just died. The sad thing is that you have to die before your house will get a new window or door.
Wind River Tribal College is a joke. I would not send my kids there. Over the past two years, they have given out more honorary degrees than real ones. The tribal members wanted that college so we can educate our kids, not give out honorary degrees. The “President” of the College has been in that position for ten years. He was supposed to get funding to be self sufficient after five years and have the school accredited. Ten years later no funding and no accredidation. We have members with PhDs now who are more trained and intelligent to run that school, not the former Chairmans brother. If we cant find a different person to run it, shut it down.
We do not need federal or state funds if we can not handle them properly. I have found reports online from 1989-1990 of bad audits the tribe had from 1985 on. No audits, no accountability, no budgets, embezzlement. This sound familiar? Its endemic and it will not stop. If things have not changed in over 20 years, they gonna change now? We can blame the current council for all our woes but thats not going to change anything. Thats just politics. Sour grapes.
In a tribe of over 9000 people you would think we could find proper leaders some where.
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hamm…im gonna have to step in here from your first post
the casino boss was hired to build our business, make money, employ people…he has done that
that is it…he runs it like any other casino would…if your a problem…and your superviser lets you go…he backs up the supervisor…as he should. this should not be a tribal job where you can do no wrong…these casino workers get benefits, good pay…but they have to work and be responsible just like if they wewre working off the rez…he holds em to that…its a business!!!!
second..there is no Council of elders any more…that was done away with a couple years ago
third…there is no tribal administer any more
other than that carry on
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lets talk about programs
1. the housing….as far as i know the housing has built about 4 housing sites in the last ten years…in hud terms thats a lot…hud doesnt randemly give out millions of dollars, it dont work that way, they gewt a set amount…most of these units, probably close to 50-60 homes have been built with tax credit funds combined with housing funds…i believe they have also had excellent audits for the past 4 years
.trribal college…the president has not been there for ten years…i also beleive he has a masters in education. the honorary degrees are for our elders who worked in the collede language programs…
on the other hand…there are programs that need to be cut
first and foremost…the northern arapaho economic development commission
well over $250,000 dollar budget per year…for what a place for 6 people to sit around and visit…we have not had one single job created in the past ten years….nothing!!!
complete and total waste….heres an idea
lets take the $250,000, put it in a bank for a year or so…every year deposit the budget in that account…then start to give out small business loans to our members
….thats economic development !!
tribal committee….probably a 500,000 dollar budget for six member to do nothing
they could be out there manually working on the powwow grounds…but no…we have hall custodians that could schedule the halls events ….dont need to pay 6 people 17 dollars an hour for not doing crap…they dont even have to clock in..they sign in a time sheet every day…even if its them just stopping by…they get paid for the whole day
we could hire a crew for the summer ceremonies
thats close to 750,000 per year savings right there
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hii3oobee you are right, I was wrong about the Council of Elders, but they spent so much money and wasted it, its hard not to mention in.
I said that old tribal administrator that got fired by the General Council, the old business council hired him back, now he works for WREQ. He should not be working for the tribe in any capacity.
Of course the Casino is a business, no doubt about that. All I said was that the profits should now be distributed to the members every month. The Tribe has mismanaged the profits for years, they have had their chance. There is no good reason to not start making distributions of the profits.
The Casino needs to mail to each adult member of the tribe a copy of the audited financial reports of the Casino annually. We need to know what is going on instead of getting a one page piece of fluff at every General Council.
I have spoken to the Chairman of the Northern Arapaho Gaming Commission and he told me that the loan that the tribe received from a company called CIT to build the Casino is not being paid off fully. It is drawn down like a line of credit so that the Casino Administration need not come back to the General Council to get approval to spend millions more.
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hammawi: the casino was never intended to give percap…some people forget…when we the GC decided years ago to support the casino efforts and the battle to get it…we passed a resolution that stated the casino funds WOULD BE USED TO FUND TRIBAL PROGRAMS, LIKE EDUCATION, SUPPORT TRIBAL ADMINSTRATION, AND CREATE JOBS…AND THAT WOULD BE OUR BENEFITS.
the idea of allocating funds for payments was voted down by much wiser people then
we must also realize…that resolution was the basis of our regs submitted to the feds…and those uses must be maintained
we must also recognize the fact…this building our our huge enterprise…IS NOT FREE…IT HAS COSTS
when (NAME DELETED BY MANAGEMENT) stated we had the greasy little 789 truckstop casino
the truck stops and ethete store werebasically bankrupt
under his managment we now have a big casin that is twice as big as it was originaly planned for
the best resturant in fremont county
three casions
a laundry mat
a embroidery shop
and functioning and profitable estore and truck stop
then we must consider in the cost…we are paying a loan…iut cost money to build littlewind casino, it cost money to build the laundry mat, it costs money to expand the gaming, buy new slots…it costs money to build a motel
once we get our things done…have paid off our loans…done with construction ….maybe then we can change the gaming regs to include a special payment…but not sooner
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Oh my head the level of ignornance is staggering I swear do you realize that we are a tribe of nearly 10000 people and u think and I use that term loosely we are going to have a high percap bonus? Ha it’d b like a 40 to 60 extra increase not the hundreds or thousands u want and it wouldn’t be monthly either you forget the casino is the largest employer in the county ih hello they have to pay employees too along with taxes fees debts and other expenses its not cheap to run a casino
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dantelope: exactly…it would take the entire tribal allocation $500,000 per month just to give everyone 50 bucks
of course then the tribal doors would shut…no enrollment…no credit loans….hey if you unfortuently need funeral expenses…S.O.L sorry no tribe covering the funeral cost today, hope that 50 helps though
need the hall?…well to bad..cant afford to open the doors
as i said when we are done building our little empire…when our loans are paid off and we have that money freed up
then maybe..we can arrange for a yearly bonus…but only then
once we free up those millions maybe we can get a $500 christmas bonus
it takes time
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Do you know that the Gaming Management is using the loan that was made to build the Wind River Casino as a line of credit rather than a loan they need to pay off? The Chairman of the Gaming Commission himself admitted to me that they pay down the debt only so much, then they borrow again, pay it back, then borrow again, so that they do not need to go back to the General Council to get permission if they want to borrow and build some more.
I understand business and economics. I have a BS in Economics and own my own business. I understand completely the gaming business, what it is and what it isnt.
I have worked at tribal casinos in California and understand IGRA, the NIGC, and the MICS.
Of course the casinos are not going to be a huge moneymaker and even if the payout is only $50, for a lot of our tribal members and elders, that is a lot of money. It belongs to them, not to the casino management, not to the business council, and not for someone to get a grant cause they cant pay their bills.
Let the GM stay on. I dont care, it really does not matter. But we need, as the members and owners of the casino, a proper accounting and to be told in hard numbers what the casino is generating and where the money is spent. There are tribal members who know how to read an income statement. I doesnt take an accountant to do so.
Our business, although making money, needs to be more profitable. If you have been to Las Vegas or even some of the other tribal casinos, you will notice that each has a certain amount of employees per machine or employees per square feet of gaming space. No matter how you look at it, our casino is over staffed. Go any day or night and you see employees walking around, on cellphones, and not attending to anyone. We need to cut staff and become more efficient.
I have read articles where our GM is interviewed. He says that our employees are treated like any other employee in the white world. Really? Where in the white world does your employer come pick you up for work and take you home?
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Really, your going to play that card hammawi.
The council is bleeding a profitable business! This shanking is forcing the manager to engage in a common method of business. If the royalls would not pillage the treasury then the principle would be paid off. You never stop growing the empire, especially if you can use someone elses dollars.
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hammiwa: our business is profitable…where are you getting the info that it isnt?
once again…people much wiser than what im seeing here desired and passed that when we get a casino the profit used would be to provide money for tribal programs
if your such a business expert then you should understant the impact of the minerals revenue
our income has dropped over 50% in the past four years…what the tribe gets in the 15% account and other minerals income per month….isnt even enough to meet payroll once a month, much less the bills or the other payroll
the casino was created to fund the tribe, create jobs…and its done that very well
some may take issue with how the tribe is spending the casino allocation….and probably have a right to do so….but it is what the people intended it to do…fund tribal programs
as for the loan…since you has a BS in economics…perhaps you could explain to us uneducated people how …..keeping a low interest faverable loan that is paid down and renewed so that we can expand the business…WITHOUT HAVING TO GO THE ROUTE OF SECUREING ANOTHER LOAN EACH TIME WE NEED TO EXPAND OR REPLACE MACHINES…IS WRONG
KEEP IN MIND THE FACT THAT IN THE WORLD OF BANKING AND CREDIT…THE TRIBE, WHICH OWNS THE CASINO IS HIGH RISK AND HASNT HAD A CLEAN AUDIT IN MANY YEARS
SEEMS PRETTY FOOLISH TO GET A NEW LOAN EVERY TIME WE GONNA DO SOMETHING
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also hamm….yes the business needs to be more profitable…but that is what they are trying to do…you think building a huge motel…is done with money they find out under a bush?
that motel will increase revenue alot when done
there are also plans for a buffett as well as a events center
a events center combined with a casino and motel would make the place a destination rather then just a place to stop in and play for a while…that means more money…more profit
you wanna cry about the loans and casino needing more profit…but neglect the fact that building a profitable business takes time and money
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I’m throwing out numbers to put some perspective on the financial situation the tribe is in. If the tribe gets a loan of $10 million dollars for 20 years with over 6% interest (probably higher) you pay $750,000 a year for a casino.
$750,000 x 20 years = $15 million to pay off a loan in 20 years, If the casino had cost double to build then its $30 million. Add on a hotel, who knows? $40 million of debt?
Let’s say we have a line of credit we borrow then pay back the borrowed amount each month. We are not cutting down our debt it still remains $40 million plus the interest which means it’s growing to $40+ million.
This is not actually building an empire but amassing debt much like the U.S. is now. If we keep borrowing it will take more than 20 years. Do you know what happens to capitol assets such as buildings in 20 years? They lose value or become run down much like an old car. Who wants to drive an old car that’s unreliable? A car you’re still paying a premium for after 20 years? Maybe it won’t even be running by then.
The U.S. will certainly be tightening its belt for years and years to pay off its massive debt and this will have an effect on the global economy. The Worldwide tourists that were expected to fly in, I don’t think so. It will remain a local attraction and a per capita outlet. The world just went through a financial recession and the U.S. is walking the line of another crisis. Countries have actually gone bankrupt the last few years. The U.S. has actually reached its debt ceiling this week. I didn’t even get into inflation.
20 years ago the tribe relied on oil & gas to sustain it. We didn’t have massive debt to pay for then. 10 years ago a gallon of gas was a dollar. Oil & Gas… The future is looking towards green energy, sooner not later, certainly not 20 years. Minerals have been the backbone of Wyoming’s economy. What happens when the world goes green? Most likely it won’t need as much minerals.
Where would $40 million go? It would go straight to the pockets of the contractors who built a casino. Who would choose the contractors? It would probably be someone who had a big influence on the decisions that were made. How much of a Christmas bonus are we expecting in maybe 30 years? $50? So $40 million or $50, who is getting the better deal with the least amount of risk? Which would you prefer?
So let’s just say 20+ years from now some of us are expecting a Christmas bonus of $50 if we don’t continue to borrow and build. Can the local economy sustain the market at this pace? 2010 was the first year Indian gaming revenues declined. More states are looking to cut into the market by offering their own gaming. U.S. and Global economies are looking to tighten their belts.
Can we even sustain this level over 20+ years with all these factors? Has the ABC, EDC, CEO, CFO, Gaming Commission, Liaison, Lawyers, or god knows who even done a market forecast for the next 20 years or even 5 years? What is the combined total estimated salary of these people over 20+ years? What?? $40+ million?? So we may spend over $80 million for $50 bucks??? No wayyyy….. I hope this is not true. I didn’t even get to the size of the tribe in 20+ years. 20+ years from now, $25 might pay for a loaf of bread, maybe.
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thats a nice story rez…but we dont even know if any of that is close to being true
this is what i recall being said once in gc
the big loan is being paid down annually
the revolving loan is seperate and used to fund machine replacement..they borrow the money, by new machines, once the loan is paid dwn they can renew it and buy more
the loan for the motel is seperate or as a part of the casino loan i didnt understand that part
so im certain the situation like you layed out is false
for one gameing is a here to today gone tomorro business, casinos make it some dont and in a wide open limited populated state like wyoming…i highly doubt any financial institution would allow the tribe to carry that much debt for so long
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A big loan, a revolving loan and a seperate loan will all be categorized as notes payable under liabilities in the financial statements for any organization. What is false about that? They all have interest attached which an average rate can be formulated. All standards in financial analysis. What is false?
If you have collateral such as a casino building, millions of of acres of land and a ranch. These can be liquidated to cover a loan if soveriegnty is waived, which most likely happened for any institution to loan a soveriegn money, otherwise it cannot collect if defaulted. This is actually a standard procedure, nothing false here.
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whats false is …i dont think its accurate…sure what your saying could happen…but i dont thinks its that way at all
our lands, the ranch, were not put up as collateral, nor was the casino itself…thats why it took so long to get a loan that worked for us and the bank
once again i dont think the main loan for the casino is a revolving loan…and is paid down monthly…and a revolving loan was the basis for your theory
the main loan is being paid down as promised
there may be a revolving loan for needs such as new machines.
as for millions of acrs for collateral…the rez is jointly owned undivided and there is absalutly no way the arap tribe waived sov to use the lands as collateral and zero chance that the shoshones would agree to it
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I didn’t state it was accurate I said I was throwing out numbers for a perspective. The only thing false here is your statement.
Also let me get this straight. You support the fact there are loans. Yet you say it’s false. Then I explain how a note payable is recorded financially. A note payable is any bank loan or form of credit with interest. And again you say it’s false but then you turn around and say it could happen.
Is there someone paying you to mislead the Arapaho People? Why would anyone listen to you? You state in one comment “a motel will increase revenue a lot” and turn around in another comment and say “gaming is a here today gone tomorro business, casinos make it some don’t”
A loan can be paid down as promised and it can take 20 years or more depending on the circumstances. That statement also supports what I have said. Any loan is naturally paid down over time, what are you trying to say? Again, it sounds like an attempt to mislead people.
Ask past councilpersons if there were any signed documents to waive sovereign immunity to get a loan, credit or bond. It is standard procedure for a bank to ensure collateral for default and in cases of sovereign immunity a waiver is signed.
I guess you’re now going to bring up your expertise as a loan officer for a bank. I don’t think it matters to you what anyone says, you will say whatever, and it’s pointless for me to explain or carry on this conversation with you. Peace.
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Out of 30 Indictments there are 26 enrolled Native American’s. Anyone see a pattern here???? The crime drugs and alcohol on the reservation is really getting out of control. We as a community need to come together and try to figure some things out. I know others state have an over serving rule implemented in the AFT and maybe this would help fight crime in the area. Throwing them in jail for a few years is doing nothing to them. They will get right back out and use their FREE paycheck Bringing a casino to the area has made it ten times worse. Yes I know someone will come back with it helps the tribe blah blah blah. What makes me sick is that the individuals are getting paid on monthly bases to break the law. I just don’t understand what is happening here. Don’t give me the, oh we were here first BS because to me that was 100’s of years ago. Why is out of 30 indictment’s given in a month and 4 are not enrolled Native American’s??? Please please explain this to me. Enrolled Native American’s are getting far more hand outs than anyone else in this town (ok well besides young girls that pop out 5-7 kids by the age of 25). I understand there is crime EVERYWHERE but I just don’t see a pattern of the same race being almost the only people committing the crimes. Not only is the indictments it’s the arrest being made it’s the Fremont county area. Also arrest warrants how many Native Americans are wanted for crimes in the area. Maybe going dry would help things out or maybe suspending FREE paydays for criminals. There has to got be something that can be done here. Instead of giving these criminals a slap on the wrist.
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Here is the problem. It starts a home. Parents must know the difference between right and wrong. Independent of your social economic status, education, place of origin, you know right from wrong. The difference is good people of character choose right. People of good character teach their children to choose right. People of good character hold their peers accountable. People of good character come alongside their brother or sister and lift them up, encourage and aid them to become people of good character. You hold them accountable for their actions. Talk and Talk. Take action. Break the cycle and become a man or woman of character. One man, One woman, One family at a time until you are a people of good character.
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comeon now: ohh brother….(facepalm)
did you ever stop to think that these are FEDERAL indictments…as in the rez is federal jurisdiction…so anything you do above simple crime on the rez is a federal case
whereas riverton is state, shoshoni is state, lander is state…and only those crimes which happen on federal land or are a federal violation end up in this…the rest are state violations
assult with intent to do bodily harm…on the rez is a federal offense…in riverton its a state crime…they get charged by the wyoming AG office
show a inditment log from state court an im sure theyll be many names, not indian
you actually dumb enough to think there are no state crimes being sentenced in states courts?
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hii3oobee
While you are correct in your response that serious crimes are federal, the op’s post is not far from truth.
A murder or serious assault “Will” make the paper. The difference is it will not happen via indictment. I would argue per population count there is more of these types of crime on the reservation.
I agree with Curt that we have to lead by example.
BTW from what I hear the petition for a special general council was turned in last week. Now is a good time for the arapaho people to take action and remove the 2 named council members.
In my opinion not one of the current council members are capable of holding these important positions. Instead of wasting money on travel and handing out grants to win a popularity contest, they should be making the Hard decisions needed to STOP spending.
They are utilizing these positions for personal gain and trying to get back at our casino for the way 3 of them were treated while working at the casino. Two of them are upset as they did not hold management positions and now have a big head. The other was fired for coming in Drunk to work. This same member also bypassed the proper drug screen required for the job. There is evidence out there that he sent a family member to take his urinalysis. This one is not hard to figure out as he fought with our lawyers and made a stink about it early on.
IF U WANT TO MAKE A CHANGE COME VOTE!!!!!!!!!
PS. Dont let them pay you off with a grant and sell out your people!
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if your talking about the post by comeon now…then no his post is far from the truth
what he’s insinuating is that all the criminals in fremont county are majorily indians…which isnt the case
this is a US attorneys logbook…if you steal a laptop for example in riverton…you may just be charged with simple theft, by the county if the state doesnt pursue
if you steal that same laptop on the rez and your an indian…its a federal case
thats what im saying…of course theres more indians on this log because its a federal log and not a state AG log
as per the rest…i dont know…i havent seen a petition yet?
and i have never recieved a grant and have no plans to start now
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I am not even gonna feed into the latter part of the “Come on now” post. That person is obviously not very educated. I agree that the federal indictment only shows this cause we are on federal land.
The everyday police logs are filled with natives for public intox alot of times, but I dont see much of anything in those to make such a judgment.
But…….we do have a problem with alcohol related violence out here. It does seem to be more prevalent out here to me as well…. I will say that.
As far as the other crap he/she said is just another “those damn indians and the free checks” speech, Which is BS. The only payment we recieve is mineral fee pay, which is not free. Its Commerce duh!!!!! Thats like saying if someone in town sold land they received a hand out instead of a payment for property.
So sorry to ruin your rant “Come on Now” but you just dont have the facts in your comment…enough said.
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YES>> The petition is turned in! You will be hearing of the meeting of GC soon. Also I was just speaking to the arapaho people in general about accepting a grant for council support. I have read before that you do not take those payouts.
Recall the uneducated and self serving council. I think we need to request that they all be recalled. I do know there is a way to add to an agenda by declaration of an emergency situation. This can be put on the floor and voted on to add the remaining members.
There are some capable arapahos that will move into these positions once they are recalled. This is business not personal.
A council person should never:
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Accept mileage pay for miles not traveled.
Abuse travel funds
Accept a line of credit for any amount. This was decided in GC and has a resolution attached.
Avoid required Drug Screening resolution attached
Hand out money for political support.
Hand out the majority of the grants to tribal office employees. I have seen with my own eyes 1 employee receiving $50,000 ontop of sallary in grants.
Lie to the people that they serve.
Use power to address personal agendas.
Hire supporters for political gain.
Be paid more than a GC resolution states.
Accept other pay other than agreed sallary.
Gamble! There was a casino agreement when the tribe 1st got the casino that stated Council members were NOT to gamble.
All these have been broken by our current council. There are more very serious issues that will be better left to the meeting.
This is by far the worst council I can remember for quite a long time. We would be far better off letting the next in line take these seats. By this happening it will send a strong message that we will not sit idle while someone takes a position of power and abuses it.
If I was in their place I would really consider resigning and saving the embarrasment, but they have grown quite the ego thus far so who knows! It should be interesting too see how they try and tell the people they are just trying to save jobs…but we all know its their jobs they are clawing for by not making a mature business decision to CUT COSTS!!!! They are in a catch 22, but will earn no respect by just sitting with a thumb in the ****!
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cty10: i agree, but i also know alot of that goes on…i see the grantees every day i go to the office, asking for money.
the tribe can barely make payrole and the council has gotten back into the habit of handing out money to the point it is jeoperdizing the entire government
all in the name of politics and reelections
i also know the way it is is if they are removed…the next two step up and it will be the same old ones from before that did the exact same things..exact same!! grants, private loans,and travel.
as it is…ihave been asked every year to run for office..every year i decline…until our people show they want change, they want progress and would be willing to abolish the grants unless its for an elder or extremne medical…then i wont do it.
this office needs radical change…they need members who think of the tribe as a whole and not indevidule people…we should not collapse the tribe in order to protect their big payrolls
but past councils before have breed these behaviors into our people..by handing out the tribal dollar that equally belongs to us all..to a few…they have come to expect it, they expect to be able to drink up thier money and the council will help them until the next month then they do it again
they expect it and if you dont give it…your not gonna be elected.
the tribe needs to post the names of all those people getting grants each week…for all to see..it is our right to know where our money goes and whos getting it
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Yep its funny you mention that at the end. I had the same thought when thinking how we can put an end to the grant scam. If everyones name was listed for every grant they receive it would stop the abuse.
We got to stay positive on the next in line though. This current council has shown and caused worse problems then needed. They lie to the people and say “its under control” and its not. I know more about the issues and how to fix them then they do. They are too hard headed to listen to anyone….ego problems. They say one thing while trying to get on and then they dont have the time to give you once they are on the council.
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The news travels fast out here though. I just got word that the council is already trying to challenge the petition. Lets see how many reasons they can come up with to say its not legit.
If they have nothing to hide they shouldnt be so worried.
They need to realize there is a network that has developed over the years of people that are tired of the same old crap.
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So you are going to wait until the people stop taking advantage of the tribe before you run? Seems kind of strange. I would think that when the people do stop taking advantage of the tribe there wouldn’t be a need for you to run? Right? The tribes need competent leaders now. Kind of seems like the people that can see what is going on and know what is wrong are scared of the poeple taking advantage of the tribe. The people that know what is wrong and have ideas on how to fix things need to step up. You will never be able to please all of the people all of the time. You just need to do what is right. Do what is right for the tribe. Step up and set a good example.
You might also require any councilman doing any travel to give a 10 or 15 minute presentation at GC on why they were on travel, what they learned, and how it was a benefit to the tribe. You might also extend that to program directors. They could give the presentation to the council.
You also need to consider banishment. We lost a good one last night to a drunk driver on 17 mile. The drunk loser behind the wheel has no business being in the tribe. He doesn’t deserve a percap or any other benefit of a tribal member. Kick him out.
Our prayers for Annete and her family and friends.
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People are going to vote the way they want. It doesn’t matter if a person is competent or not. You can lead a horse to water but you can’t make them drink. You just have to let nature take its course and provide a path for children and others in case its not what they promise. In the end, it’s the creator that places the final judgement on right and wrong, so it all balances. That’s the big picture, how you have lived your life in front of the creator eyes. Live it well and you will receive the ultimate reward. Nothing else matters when it’s your time, be thankful for what the creator has blessed you with. Politics will end up taking more than you think.
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not so much waiting until the grants program is gone…as it is waiting for our people to vote for honesty, integrity and putting the wefare of the tribe as a whole…first
as it is now if you ran on a platform of reform…a platform of whats right for the tribe…very hard to get in
as soon as you fired the first director not doing thier job and costing us money by audit penelty…your on the chopping block
unless you have a superbig family…because people vote on family lines…he’s my uncle, or cousin and if he gets in im getting a job or a raise or grants every week…is very hard…cause thats the way it seems to go.
its a wicked mess
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Agreed on most of your comments. I do know there are voters that vote for others besides family, Im one of them. I have not had any close family run for years and years. I wouldnt vote for someone just because they are my family. If I dont think they can handle the job they would have my support.
Word is the agenda for special GC is out though I have not seen it yet! I did hear its contents and that it was for the removal of Chair and Co-chair and that it would be on the 15th of June.
Those 2 council members are not at work today and I was told they are taking some time off. IMHO this is yet another mistake to abandon your “post” because you are being accused of something. It shows loud and clear there is truth to the allegations. I know there is but for those who have not seen the abuse, theres the reaction from your leaders.
As far as being scared as sofa puts it, its just not the case. How do you know my contibutions to tribe without knowing me?
As far as the report to GC for the councils travel this is already being done. They have a cap that they already went over for travel. I also am not stupid enough to believe the reports that they give. This council has done nothing but lie about everything. They are still holding on to the lies as they grow and now it has turned on them.
I dont have anything personal against them even though it may sound that way. I just know NOT 1 of them have the know how to do the job. The rest of the new guys are like little scared puppies that refuse to stand on their own 2 feet. They have followed these 2 (special interest)members right in to a mess.
And now our government sits as the 2 “leaders” have went into hiding. What a joke if u ask me. The others are lost now or handing out grants like candy. I was at the ethete office the other day and it was crazy busy handing out free money. If this is not obvious they are paying for support, well u are blind and in denial.
Evertime there is a doubt that our leaders are competent the money comes flowing out. The thing is we are broke so where is the money coming from? State and federal grants? Money that was put away for rainy days?
They also receive mileage ontop of sallary. They dont even have to keep a mileage log. They just take the money from a projection made by a past consultant. They get the money even if they dont drive their car, makes me sick.
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Unfortunately, whenever someone out here says “The councilmen just take care of their family”, it means “No one in my family is on the council.” It’s not just the men and women on the council. Odds are the ones that replace anyone who gets recalled aren’t going to be much better. You’re going to have to be willing to go outside the tribe and find reputable people with actual business experience. And then you’re going to have to actually listen and learn from them. You’re going to have to implement and ENFORCE policies that apply to everyone no matter what family you are part of. No matter if you are a councilman or not. Even if it makes some people mad. Especially if it makes some people mad. The ones that get mad are probably the ones with their hand in the cookie jar.
The sooner you start running the tribe like a business, the sooner things will turn around. Keep running it like a government and the spiral downward will continue. Just look at the federal government. Look at 80 to 90% of the state governments.
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yes an no…there are plenty of honest, smart people in the tribe that would do an excellent job.
the tribal government isnt a business…its a government
the problem is there is a large contingent of these people with thier hand out…this isnt a new problem…it isnt a thing of only this council…yet it isnt really an old one either…i dont recall a grant program when i worked for the tribe in the 90′s, if there was it wasnt very big
its a recent thing that has exploded and was feed by previous councils until it became the monster we see now
i realize part of the duties of our people, our government is taking care of our elders, sick and the very young. however it is now a huge problem with a majority of those seeking and getting grants are young people 20-40 years old
what these councils have created is young people who dont wanna work or help themselfs because if they need something the grant program and council scared to say no…will provide
meanwhile the majority of the tribe toils away and keeps apart from that stuff….most tribal employees would be lucky to get a 50cent raise every 5-6 years…most may not even get a cost of living increase in ten years.
there is no health insurance, life insurance…no retirement fund…nothing but a check that goes less and less as the cost of living increases.
tribal committi as well as economic devel commiti should be disbanded….use that economic development budget to give small business loans
personal loans by employees should be brought current…i have no problem with the tribe giving an employee a loan…the problem is when they dont pay it back…and get another, and another and another…make a resalution if you work for the tribe…your loans, promisary notes must be paid in full by a certain date…or you dont have a job and they will garnish your percap
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To be thankful is to have respect for the creator, Jesus, God, spiritual aspects etc. and creation which is sacred. When a person says you have to have respect, does it mean respect for them or the creator. Without this respect for what is holy stems a deeper spiritual problem where actions surface such as corruption, cheating, stealing, lying, etc. There is no sense of right and wrong, in their eyes nothing is ever wrong. They will use traditional or non-traditonal practises to twist the truth for their own benefit.
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I forgot greed.
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Rezonomics, You are right you have identified the problems root cause. A man when left to his own ways has nothing good to draw from. A man of God draws from the righteousness of God, and submits to God’s will and obeys God. Without Christ this inner man is evil and will lead to corruption. Unless that inner man submits to God he is corrupt and destine for the wrong doing we are discussing. Men of character rise up and lead your people, set the example, and show the way. Be fair to all, be honest in your ways, love and respect each other the way the creator expect. Much work is to be done, the stakes are great.
Curt
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curt: so your saying only those that follow the words of christ…the bible…can be just? or are you saying we indians are inheriently evil if we dont follow christiananity?
cause i can show coutless true and devote christians that have committed crimes like…forced slavery…murder…genocide, corruption…bigomy…molestation…if you like
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Since we are on the page for Indictments. The Arapaho are indicting the Current council for gross abuse. The meeting is June 15th Blue Sky ethete Wy @ 10am. There are two council members set to be removed on the agenda. From the information that I have recently received we need to vote under special curcumstances that the other council be added to the removal list.
Gross Abuse and Breaking GC Resolutions
Names will not be given as respect to this website but you will know and see the evidence @ the meeting.
Abuse of Mileage up to $2400-$2600 a month per single member and numerous mileage amounts. Getting advances from future projected mileage. No use of mileage logs. Claiming this kind of mileage during normal traveled months when they were away on business travel (paid)
Abuse of travel with one member on travel every month (sometimes twice) through the entire yr of 2010.
Sallary reimbursement for the last promised sallary Cap set by GC. They called it a voluntary pay reduction reimbursment. One Current member $20,000 and another well over $20,000. These were given to the last council as well.
Breaking resolution on loans to council members. Two members for $10,000, one for 2000 and one with outstanding loan after resolution was set.
One member was paid 68 times to chair our GC meetings @ $200=$13,600. This was before he was elected to ABC, but I was unaware that they put this kind of money out to chair a few meetings?
Receiving financial assistance in grants for the needy. They were not satisfied with the high sallary and unjustified mileage they were already receiving so they passed assistance grants for themselves untop of it all.
Much More! everyone must attend this meeting to make it VERY CLEAR this will not be tolerated any longer for ANY council especially when we are broke.
June 15th BlueSky Hall 10am.
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seems to me these things raise question
1. do all abc get milage?..if so why not accuse all of them and not single out two?
2.are all abc reporting the milage in the same fashion?…if so why target only two?
3. travel…travel abuse has went on for all long time now it isnt just a recent issue is it?….and im sure every single current abc member has traveled excessively …not just two…so why not all of them?
4. these salary reimbursments were paid to the former abc members who lost their re election bid…right? this was done before the new council took office…so how is it a offense against these two ? and only these two?
5. if present members also took a salary reimbursment other than just the two named..shouldnt they also be up for removal?
6. how is getting paid to chair GC meetings, pre GC meetings as well as Post GC meetings as the chairmen of the day…an offense against his office today?
7. didnt the ranch buy one members daughter a 30,000 house…why isnt that member mentioned in this?
8. isnt another member a business owner that makes money off his contracts with the tribe?…why isnt he brought up?
9. i would bet every single one of them has gotten grants…not just two…so why only bring up the two?
10. all these things makes it sound like retailiation against two members…cause if they are guilty of misuse…im sure the others are also
thats just my questions?
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Are u asking in general cause I stated in my post that they all need to be removed?
The reason the 2 are listed on the petition and not the others was due to them fighting with the casino for more money. When the casino management told them they would jeopordize the casino and motel if they took more money they began utilizing inappropriate tactics to get more money. The petition was started from casino managers.
As far as the rest of your post I mentioned that we need to vote for ALL of them to be on the agenda. The petition was signed with the 2, surely we shouldnt sit back and just let the 2 off the hook until we can make it fair!!! This is not a bunch of children who need to be treated all the same. The 2 will go and then the rest will as well now that they are exposed. There is a rule of order we must follow in GC!
As far as some of the other accusations you made, I have heard those rumors. What will be presented now is fact and the evidence is available for any arapaho to see.
This evidence was just released and the petition and meeting has already been set. I dont see anything in my post that singles out just the 2?
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As far as the sallary reimbursement. Only 2 of them that are currently on the council got it and they are not the 2 listed on the petition.
The payment was made to them 11/25/10. One for $20,000 and the other $12,500. The one with the $12,500 had other payments made in increments that total well over the $20,000. He also had a payment made to him from our last Tribal administrator for $5,000. All it says in the ledger is DONATION!!!!!!
This is why I said we need to (under emergency grounds) add the rest of the members to the petition.
The two members that are on the petition have abandoned office. They have decided to take time off, two weeks.
One of them got a check for $2400 on the 31st of May right before taking that time off.
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To answer your question on how the GC chair fees reflect on his position today:
Well it shows he is a money grubbing individual that should not hold office. Now that he is in office he has more access to money. Its very simple. 68 meetings in around a years time, with only 2 to 3 GC meetings, are you serious? He was paid $200 for touching base with the cooks for the lunch that was served. Scam if u ask me!
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Your question:
4. these salary reimbursments were paid to the former abc members who lost their re election bid…right? this was done before the new council took office…so how is it a offense against these two ? and only these two?
No they all got it, even the two that made it back on.
It was a way to take the pay cut mandated by GC and find another way to get the money anyway. THe funny thing is from what I am hearing they are still making over the cap that was set.
They believe that since this is tribal dollars they will not be held accountable. WRONG! This money belongs to the arapaho tribe and it is still theft. It will go federal as you know. Many council members from other tribes have been indicted for this same kind of theft. The FBI does have the right to investigate and indict them on it.
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Correction to clear up my answer above.
ALL the past council got it and two that made it back on. To my knowledge the NEW council members did not receive it.
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Just out of curiosity….what happens IF the two are removed? Is there a special election or do the next top 2 from the last election slide in?
Either way. What’s going to change? People will settle down again. People will think they learned a lesson. But how many times have we been here before? Even if the two are removed, I don’t see significant change coming. By the end of July things will be back to the way they were. If not sooner.
But I applaud the try. The right questions are being asked. A few eyes seem to be opening. Maybe the momentum will carry through to some significant changes in policy and attitude. Maybe.
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well c10…again im not fighting your personal views or information…im not saying they didnt or did do those things
only that to me if two are guilty…then they all are…if these two are guilty…then all the past ones are too
because alot of the things i see happened previous to thier election so i cannot see how they are listed as greivences? to the two and only the two?
if the two re elected members took the money…why are they not on the block?
i also know that the other ones were in meetings that demeanded money or more money from the casino the same time these two did…why not them?
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Sofa:
That is gonna be an obstacle 4 sure. As far as resolution 6663 reads they can be appointed or after 6 months the next in line will take office. GC could decide on a special election, but then again that creates more costs. Even having these GC meetings has a pretty heavy price. Things need to be changed and we need to stop making GC an employment hayday. I dont get paid anything to go but do so just because I care.
I understand that most times people after the fact will settle down and business goes back to the usual, but people are changing in this day of age. Countries are having revolutions and everyday more and more americans are awakened to problems that face ALL OF US.
If we continue to be sheeple it is our own fault. I really never have been very political until lately. I just am tired of people who have no consideration for others. I am no saint but I just have no tolerance for that kind of crap. I was raised to respect people, especialy the poor.
hii3oobee:
Though I respect your opinion most times on here I strongly disagree with your view that “its the past councils fault”. If you are elected to office your job is to adjust to our current state (broke)and act accordingly. We can only change the future and present, not the passed.
I cannot answer your question of why not the rest. I did not start the petition, but it does not matter if it is a sweep or a couple at a time. Your sending a message that it will not be tolerated. I do know the 2 up for removal were the most arrogant over the last 6 months. They were both involved with some of the resolutions that are being broke. One was the GC chair and the other a petitioner. From my review a resolution was passed to fire consultants that uncovered fraud from ones family. This same person after “learning these consultants were needed” broke their own resolution to bring them back onboard after they won office. Sounds like a hypocrite to me! They messed up the last coucils efforts but feel its ok for them to use them.
You never know if we would have kept those consultants we may not have gotten a BAD audit. If you look at it that way they cost our tribe more than you can even imagine. To sacrafice 9000 + members for your own personal gain is pretty sad, no?
The other signed the resolution as GC chair. Thats the problem noone is following resolutions. There was not even a quorum at the time, but the chair passed it anyway cause they were planning during this time. There is a $200 charge as GC chair to meet with the petitioner (other council member)before they had the GC meeting to fire them. Hmmm sound a little fishy?
They then both realize they are in over their head when they got on the council, so they changed direction and retained the services.
I think we need outside sources to clean this up and keep it clean. It would solve a good portion of these finacial problems to outsource the finance duties. The sacrifice is some tribal members loose a job, but the business needs to be handled CORRECTLY and by QUALIFIED people 1st and foremost. Then build from there.
Just a thought!
The casino supporters are just fighting to keep the casino untouched. If we loose the casino over this stupidity it would be a shame.
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Awesome comment. I especially like the last part: “but the business needs to be handled CORRECTLY and by QUALIFIED people…”. You are right on target.
Unfortunately qualified outside sources are often run off. Just look at how much time is spent trying to get rid of the casino ceo despite all that he has been able to accomplish for the tribe with no evidence of anything nefarious . Not many around here are able to see the big picture. Most (including those making the decisions) aren’t able to see past their own greed and ambition. That’s true from here to DC and everywhere in between. It’s going to be a difficult road. As soon as a qualified outside source fires someone from the wrong family they usually get the boot.
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You are correct we have been through soooo many in the past few years. I will make a prediction now though!
We will most likely see the corrective action through the control of BIA and DOI. It is not that far from being a reality. We have come to a point in the road that it seems like the only way out. I do believe that we have a chance if we were to take serious action and make the right choices LIKE NOW but unfortunately you have to have 4 out of 6 leaders to agree and be in that frame of mind. They then would have to have the guts to be honest and make hard decisions with cuts.
The truth of the matter is we have had many consultants in the past 2 years but they are not allowed to do too much investigative work into the financial data because there are many that do not want things uncovered. I guess when the Feds and FBI come flashing badges and seizing books the council will take it seriously.
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c10: your missing the point on just the two…getting rid of two when all are guilty does what?
as per the former auditers…i worked with the tribe at that time…we were paying those guys over a million dollars a year…the lead guy a $125 per hour…and we still had to pay thier rent on a apartment in lander
for what…he screwed our program up royaly…he,the finacial expert not the program manager used program specific monies to pay tribal expenses and record them in the audit as our legit expenses..in other words he lied…cheated and stole
and as far as i know from asking around he the financial expert isnt working or hasnt worked for the tribe since his dismissal
as per your suggestion my view is its the fault of the former councils…the situation the tribe is in isnt new…it didnt just start on december 20010…its been here for years
even two years ago with the hireing a tribal administer…who had a huge budget…and used it for his benefit as well as the former councils benefit
the grants program isnt new…it didnt just start
so what im saying is these guys do in fact have a responsibility to correct the actions of former councils…but they are not to blame for creating this mess
and the other part is…the next two on the list were former abc member that didnt get reelected..right?
so we remove these two and were just putting back members that did the exact same thing…exact!!! right?
im all for saving the casino…as i said before they need to leave the boss alone, let him do the job he is paid to do and is doing very well
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hii3oobee
You are right I did fire a shoot across your bow. I can see how my comments could be inflammatory. My comments were intended to concur with the comment made by rezonomics.
The thread of this conversation is different from this topic. This would not be the venue to raise this topic. This conversation would take from the current thread. I am willing to continue this discussion but believe this is not the venue.
Curt
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hii3oobee
No Im not missing the point! Your making me believe that you are though.
By removing 2, thats two less to worry about, no?
And how do you know the people taking their place would be just the same?
The consultants I am talking about have saved our tribe a bunch of money so Im not following you. I agree the audit team we had right after that was bogus, but I dont think we payed anywhere near what you are speaking of.
It would be ludicrous to just not work with consultants because of getting a bad one here and there. If we have educated and capable arapaho people working up there, we would not be able to be hustled, but I dont believe we can handle the mess on our own. It is not cheap to hire specialists for anything. A million seems a little exaggerated to me, but $150-$250,00 does not if they can save you as much as they cost and restructure a WORKING business.
It really does not matter which council screwed up or who is to blame. My point was that if we are in a financial bind the council (no matter who they are) has to adjust accordingly, not pay themselves large sums of money and borrow out of our general funds for personal reasons. That is the whole tribes money, not the councils. Are you following me or do you still not get it?
The grants program is not new, yes I understand that. Who is in control of it right now as I type? Yes the current council so if they continue to spend, spend, spend and not restructure it, whos fault is it?
What budget did the tribal administrator have? He had control over EVERYTHING. Yes his pay was high, but he also didnt have the expertize to make those kind of decisions. Thats my point. The blind leading the blind. WE NEED QUALIFIED ACCOUNTANTS PERIOD!!!!!
I dont know who is next on the list, I dont care really. By making that example you are setting a Bar they have to live up too or they will be gone as well.
Now there is evidence for the rest of them. They will have to be dealt with later if they do not add them to the agenda. Im confused as to why you have such a problem with going for the two right now if they have been abusing their position?
They should be handled individualy anyway as some are worse than others. It would be up to GC to decide the outcome.
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Right now it just stealing from Peter to pay Paul!
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sorry c10…i dont see it that way…to me it seems personal
it takes 4 members to approve anything…you look on every single grant…it will have 4 abc sigs…not just two!
every thing the council does take 4 signatures…not two
its like watching 6 people steal tvs from walmart…and only stopping two for it while telling the other four…we know your stealing tvs too , but take your tv and go and from now on were gonna watch you
as per the consultant and his company….this guy was a total crook…he was a consultant that worked his way into running the whole tribe..even re writing the employee handbook…his company has ruined sveral tribes acroos the contry besides ours…yes he got the audits done…but only after he was gone did the programs find out the extent of his failing.
and yes your absaluty correct…if we are in a bind financially they shouldnt give out loans…much less to themselfs
but once again..are they the only two that did it?…if not why only prosecute the two? to prosecute just two in GC while looking the other way on the others…does what?…let them get away with it?
and i believe who is next on the list is two former members who were not successful in the election….two members that also did alot of things these two are getting punished for
massive grants…mismanagment…personal gain…
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You can see it anyway you want.
Seems like you are sympathizing for the 2.
GC is ran by RULE OF ORDER, uhh nevermind.
Your tv thieves would not all go to court on the same docket would they?
The others will be held accountable dont fret.
Or go support them its your choice. 270 people did not sign it because it was personal.
Also yes the next in line didnt win the election they are the next in line?
Anyhow I gave the information go make your own decision and vote to keep them on, that will help matters wont it?
The 2 behaved in a way that got them put on a petition and the NEW ADDITIONAL evidence shows all of them doing things they are not supposed to. If we cannot add to the agenda for the others are we supposed to just say ahh nevermind because its not fair? Come on this is the real world!!!
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PS
The bogus mileages dont take 4 sig.
The sallary reimbursment didnt take 4 sig.
The out of pocket expences for “helping” tribal members didnt take 4 sig.
The $5000 donation to a member from the tribal administrator didnt take 4 sig.
The promise to pay loans in the amount of $10000, $10000, and $2000 didnt take 4 sig.
Hiring back the consultant that was let go in GC didnt take 4 sig. I dont know where your info is coming from on him stealing, Do you have evidence? Roomers are not enough!
The $50,000 in assistance that one of the Sec took was done via stamp.
I assure you not all the grants have 4 signitures on them.
Do you work for the tribe? Is there a reason you are utilizing your opinion and just trying to confuse the simple obvious.
I am pretty sure they will all go when this is over.
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once again….like i said im all for a fair, responsible and honest government…im 100% behind our leaders being held accountable
however…as a rationalist…i would like to see concrete proof of wrong doing
as a tribal member i wonder …why only two!!! i know for a fact there was more than just the two in the meeting with the casino demanding more money…that is a fact…it wasnt just the two…it was all four of the newly elected members!!!
so again…why target just the two…is it because the petitioner is within two slots and would move up into thier vacated seat?and so only needs two gone?..is that the driving motive for a current casino worker to start a petition to oust two new members…while disregarding the same acts of mismanagment by the other two new members…both who happen to be…casino employees??
so whos getting personal?…not me….if the grounds warrent it…and their action call for dismissal…i’ll vote that way
so are you guys gonna start another petition for the other wrong doers?…you said they will be punished..how?
these petitioners new exactly as a fact that the threat to the fiscal stability of the casino came from all newly elected members…right?…that isnt newely discovered evidence..they were there.
in order to claim finacial wrong doing they would have to have evidence before starting the petition…right?
so how can it be that they only looked at two members
anyway…i guess im still confused on why only two if the wrong doing is across the board
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yes i know some things are stamped…again im a believer in if your in the council..or office…or business
and you know one or more people are breaking the rules and proffitting from it…then by not taking action your just as guilty
hence is why i cant understnd just the two
perhaps to build a case about these huge payments…the petitioner ought to FOI the employee payouts other than what was paid in salary…every grantee, employee loan, promisary note should be listed as to what they recieved from these councils
and yes i know the 20,000 salary reimbursment was paid..i find that criminal and every single one that took that money should never hold office or work for the tribe…but again that was paid out before these two took office…wasnt it?
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I know what you mean about wanting proof. I like to see hard evidence before making a decision about someone too. It is tough out here on the rez and there are TONS of untrue bad rumors to consider. I dont like when someone just starts rumors because they are either jealous or have a personal problem with them.
The councils from the past have betrayed the people on so many levels. I do agree with you that this monster was created long ago. I am arapaho so starting a GC with a good prayer is great, but at times the wicked take advantage of that tradition. They always want the meetings to go “in a good way” and dont like confrontation. Sometimes it is justifiable to be angry!
I am not sure why the petitioners did not go after all of them at once. Maybe they thought it was unrealistic. Maybe the other past casino employed council members were at some of those meetings demanding money, but they didnt do the talking. From what I have noticed those others are more followers than leaders. From what I hear it is partly to do with the abusive of power that has made the 2 stand out.
The ironic thing is one of the worst ones for the finacial fraud is not on the list, so I do understand your point. The important thing to remember though is political power for personal gain is just as destructive if not worse. The other part of this for me anyway is: Those 2 knew damn well what they were doing when they broke those resolutions. They were involved in the resolutions coming to life in GC. They knew NO council was to owe or borrow from the tribe. They are not respectful to the power of the people, GC.
They have also abondoned their post. This is not a time to take 2 weeks off. They know they have done wrong. Why in the world should we let them slide until we get all of them on the agenda, is my point?
You will see the evidence and you make your own call if it is enough for removal. None of the payments I have spoke of were from salary so there is no confusion on that part. It also comes down to priciples of respecting what the people want and what resolutions are to be followed. You cannot just follow what is to your own benefit and ignore others.
I dont think the petitioner made it to the top 12 or 13, dont remember for sure. I do know that if they were trying to develop a council of past casino employees they are not gonna be able to do that now. The evidence shows abuse finacialy for all of them.
The petition is based on Gross abuse and breaking resolutions.
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Im glad I dont work for the tribe anymore. It has turned into nothing but a mess. This is what we have left for our chidren to cleanup. It will take years to get back into shape.
See you at the meeting.
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I have been reading these comments from several tribal members for sometime now and have to say that, I agree on some of the view points made but have to interject and voice my own opinion.
it is true that there is corruption at the top level of the tribal govt. and it is not going to change until people of moral conscience are placed in leadership roles for the Arapaho tribe.
Our leaders of long ago were men of moral character and were placed in leadership positions based upon their honesty, integrity and sincerity, their positions were not abused or misused, and yet today we have leaders who have personal agendas as their motives for tribal leadership, with this mindset it is no wonder that corruption is prevelant by our leaders.
So until the people our tribe begin to select real and honest men and women, I’m afraid that this type of behavior will continue to destroy our leadership, I will say this though, I can honestly say that there is only one or two people from the council who are honestly trying to make a difference in our tribal government.
We need level headed people who are qualified to make sound judgements for the Arapaho tribe and to act as grown men and women who have unbiased strategies to turn around the mess that was created from past councils. Right now it appears that even the basic principles of leadership are not applied to run a tribal government without personal vendettas, retributions, or personal paybacks as their motives for misusing their state of elected power.
Whatever happened to the days of our chiefs putting the people first in front of themselves?. Isn’t it a shame that we try to carry on the strong tradition of our tribe, yet ignore the basic principle of what we are?
We were in times past an honorable nation, a strong nation, a respected nation, where has that gone? Where is our honor when we are only in it for ourselves? Wake up Arapaho! our ancestors would be horribly ashamed of us the way we have become and yet we try to act like we honor our sundance and all the tribal traditions and values… yet we treat each other like enemies!
Is it not hypocritical to proclaim to be a traditional Arapaho and to practice our Arapaho ways one week out of the year and the rest of the year be underhanded, jealous, hateful, and malicious?
It is shameful, to those who will reply in a malicious way to this opinion are probably those who are guilty of living in a hypocritical way and live in denial of this fact.
SO wake up Arapaho…. get back to the basics at hand and get some traditional values back into our tribal structure with the true intent of tribal leadership at the forefront.. enough personal agenda’s, enough favors only for family, time to think of the tribe as a whole,,, remember greed, hatred, jealousies, and malice are not traditional traits of the Arapaho but learned behaviors that came from outside influences.
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OH, OK… here we go! Greed, hatred, jealousy and malice never existed before the white man.
Quit living in an idealized past (that never was and never will be) and start living in the present. I’m reading a lot of good stuff in these pages and it’s apparent that the people needed to set things straight in the Arapaho tribe exist. They’ve been writing these opinions.
The old fall back “Things weren’t this way before the white man ruined our lives” ain’t going to cut it! Step up and get busy! Quit whining!
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observer: i applaud your post…a good read and touching on what i mean by not running…you may have worded it alot better than i could have.
this evolution into the commom behavior we seen..this greed, corruption, pettiness, putting them selfs and family above the well being of the tribe…and willingness to continue to vote people in for family and what they can get out of it…is what i mean when i say i wont run until people change
thats not saying i would get elected…but i wouldnt wanna run with people expecting me to hand out money at the expense and well being of the tribe.
and dickie…your ignorance is noticed once again. in the arapaho way greed was unknown…you shared everything…food tools what ever you have that is need was freely given.
it was said the strongest leaders that were regardd the highest…were poor men…not because they were lazy…or didnt hunt…or work…but because they gave so much…they would rather go without than see their people in need…they gave away everything
money plays a huge part in that…money rules the world…we didnt have money…it is new to us
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No doubt hatred, jealousy, and malice in addition to greed, corruption, pettiness and putting one’s own interests ahead of another’s were all introduced by the white man.
The lack of these attributes are admired by many cultures. Believe it or not, even the vile white man would recognize the absence of these traits as a virtue. If you choose to ignore the obvious in an effort to wallow in an idealized past then you do it at your own peril. Like it or not, you are no longer living the traditional Arapaho life.
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dickie,
First of all what would you know about Arapaho culture? secondly, as hi3oobee put it our people lived by our generous traits and did give everything away of value, it is just our natural way,,, but I can see I hit an exposed nerve when I mentioned the characteristics that are not a natural part of our way of life.
Sorry if you took offence for the obvious, but I was merely stating that the mentioned characteristics were not in the norm and that it is a learned behavior by the atrocities that were committed against us and consequently are still being done today… if you look at the way our people are treated in todays society, this state, this country etc… you would see that we are the last of concern in the views of the non-native peoples.
We take in other nations from HOSTILE countries and set them with with housing, jobs, and other social services and turn around and totally ignore the original inhabitants that occupied the country before the European deluge of immigrants.
Where is the honor of holding the treaties that are the basis of the U.S. Constitution? where is the health care promises, where is the promises of promise in general that were given to us?
You say to move on… if the shoe was on the other foot you undoubtedly would be bellyaching, whooping, and hollaring and yes WHINING! your dismay about what was done to you.
Now the answer for those not affected by past atrocities, by telling us to move on and basically to forget about the wrong doing that was done to us and is still being committed by narrow-minded people within the local towns, in order to appease their conscience if they have any is to tell us to move on…
If it wasn’t for the native dollar than these two towns would have undoubtedly dried up and fell off the face of the earth by now, the native people have made these non-native businesses prosper and thrive, but would these people ever admit it or come to appreciate it? no way, perhaps because they are not accustomed to being grateful.. as native people what something is given to us we are very appreciative with the what little our brothers and sisters can afford.
So in response to dickies comment, it is no wonder someone with little concern or appreciation for what has been given to them through tribal commerce would view us in a sensitive way.
It is through sheer ignorance that these people have no conceptual insight or common sense about what has been and will continue to be done to native peoples, its not about whining, we have our doctors, lawyers, judges and other people of prominence within our tribal community, but will we ever be viewed as anything more than “freeloaders” that is the ignorant view that is placed on us time and again because people like dickie fail to know us as a people, not everyone are drunks or drug addicts living on the Wind River,,, get a clue dickie I’m sure you can do some research and see that we do have our respectible people as well as those who have been influenced negatively.
So before you place blame on us entirely of having non-tribal attributes, look to why they might be there in the first place.
Just a thought for you to ponder!!
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I know about human characteristics. Turns out we all share them. Some are more pronounced by the culture in which we live but we all share them.
Here’s a thought for you to ponder. Just because someone disagrees with you doesn’t automatically make them a racist or automatically ascribe to them thoughts that a whole race are “freeloaders” or “drunks.”
The Arapaho people are not the first people on this earth to have been wronged either. I realize that expansion across the USA resulted in lives taken, treaties broken and ways of life shattered. It’s been that way since the dawn of time.
I’ve gotten over my “dismay” with the wrong done to my ancestors. Speaking as a true American mongrel I know about the wrong heaped on my ancestors by different societies. But, those were my ancestors, not me.
I hope I wasn’t whining. I did tear up a bit.
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dickie: hatred, jealosy are human traits and emotions inheriently in all people…greed, corruption and pettiness are learned behaviors,
the problem is nobody is wallowing in the past…we recognize it as a aspect of our current lifestyles…alcohalism, greed, corruption are all learned, and alot resulting from our removal from a way of life that went on for thousands of years to suddenly locked up no longer free, destitute, starving, a prisoner on your on lands, watching your children die from disease and starvation…and then forced to evolve into a lifestyle that money is hard to come by…and if you have a lot your somebody..that money gets you all you need…money is what you seek
we simple recognize it as a contributing factor…unlike people like you that profess if we mention it or referr to it…then we’re wallowing in the past!! you people wish to totaly ignore the fact that your ancestors actions may yet have a lingering effect on the life of the american indian today.
you can ignore it…we just recognize it
its not wallowing
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All of the traits that you’ve mentioned are common to the entire human race. I stand by my statement. Being a native doesn’t exempt you or anyone else from human frailties.
Your way of life doesn’t go back thousands of years. The coming of the horse changed native peoples lives forever and yet I don’t hear anyone complaining about the Spaniards’ horses. I’m willing to bet that the Arapaho people of 150 years ago weren’t the same as the sore footed bunch of 500 to 600 years ago. Things change.
And, you’re absolutely right, the reservation system is no good.
I’ll go a step further and say right up front that the casinos that dot the reservation have done more harm to the people they were meant to help. You’ve traded a few jobs for yet one more avenue to squander away a persons chance for a better life.
And, yep you’re right again. The world we live in, the here and now, revolves in large part around the almighty dollar. Material possessions aren’t everything but as you’ve noted poverty sucks.
You are absolutely right to honor your past. But, I question the pursuit of a traditional (reservation bound) way of life that dooms your children to a life of poverty and violence.
I guess “people like me,” and I do take offense to the obvious racial attack on my mongrel heritage, are pragmatists at heart. In other words, if something ain’t working it’s time to move on.
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dickie, you must be new to the area. 9.9 times out of 10 if you disagree you have to be a racist. By definition. And telling someone to move on? Whoa. I wouldn’t want to be in your shoes.
Everything was going pretty good. Some responsibility was being taken and a couple of the bad seeds on the council were removed. Then we went right back to the poor me stuff. It’s the fed’s fault, it’s the states fault, it’s the counties fault, the white guy corrupted us, it’s his fault, it’s their fault. Just when I thought you might be ready to say “hey, a lot of this is our fault. We need to clean house, get things in order and start running things right.” Nope. Too much to hope for.
And hii3oobee, “I wouldn’t wanna run with people expecting me to hand out money at the expense and well being of the tribe.” THAT’S THE WHOLE PROBLEM. No one knows how to say NO out here. Someone is going to have to step up and say NO. Even if it means being the bad guy.
Your ancestors might have suffered under the thumb of the white guy, but you’re suffering by your own decisions now. Stop the blame game.
You think things are tough now? With the budget cuts coming from Washington, you better get things cleaned up fast and get real creative.
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No, Sofa, I’ve been here many years. You might even say I’m a native.
Hii3oobee: It’s apparent to me that even though we disagree on some points you are a very good representative of the Arapaho. I think you do them a disservice by not running for GC.
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dickie: the horse changed th mobility of the people…it may have changed the way a herd was hunted…it did not change the qualities of the people…it did not chaange the way our religion was or our expectations of actions
thats like saying the invention of the gas motor changed the way the nordic fisherman live…it makes it easier to fish,,can go further but doesnt change their culture other than that
and i never said the reservation system is no good…right now the electorial process is no good…as would be any culture adapting
as for the casinos…i strongly disagree….what your problem along with most republican type people is the expectaion that we arapaho can just decide to pick up and move off the rez if things are bad…sure some do, some were raised out in other places…but our family, homeland, are something most will never give up..its our way
the casino took over 500 people that would not otherwise have a job…gave them independance…the casino gave how many people in riv jobs?…you think all those new motels would be built without the casino? what alternative did these people have?..leave their culture, family, life and home behind?
we have hope the true arapaho people will prevail…the true way will survive and we will learn to adapt while retaining our valued qualities
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sofa …we call it as we see it…as long as you have been on this site you have done nothing but call the indian people down…critisize the reservation..our life…our laws…our tribe…our views…never once have you posted anything but negetive
just as you did just now
budgets cuts….dude your talking to the indian people here…we have always….always had our funding cut first…the most…and the most often…we are used to it
should worry about the farmer if their free subsidies are cut
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Never once? That’s a bit extreme. If that’s the case I could say you have never once had anything nice to say about any non-indian past or present. The only difference would be that I would know I was full of it.
I criticize what I see as being done wrong. No different than how you criticize every non-native in the county as being anti-indian. How you criticize those mean farmers for taking all the water and getting all of those subsidies (not disputing that it happens, by the way). I criticize when the tribes blame everyone but themselves for every difficulty that comes along. Going to have to take responsibility someday.
Even the two jokers that got booted off the council (or maybe not, last I heard that was in doubt). “It’s not their fault. They were corrupted by the white man’s ways.”
You don’t have the monopoly on “calling it like we see it”.
It’s hard to criticize someone for doing something right. That would shut me up real fast.
Dickies comment on the casinos is at the very least true for the one in Ethete. That was built to spite the Shoshones and just makes it easier for the locals to blow a paycheck. One good thing about it, the tribes get a lot more than 15% from mineral royalties to fund their government. With the number of percaps walking into the casino I would say it’s closer to 50 or 60%. Maybe higher.
That was probably out of line, but what the hey.
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Hii3oobee: I’m going to leave the rest of your comments alone, reluctantly, but I’ve got to strongly disagree about the casinos. I believe that gambling is a vice whether you are rich or poor. Placing casinos and smoke shops right next to low income housing; Beaver Creek, Boulder Flats and Ethete is disgusting at best and border line criminal.
People who can ill afford it (native and non-native) regularly squander what little they have into the casinos. Who ends up with the money? You’ve said yourself that it was never intended to finance the tribes. The purpose is to create jobs. I know for a fact that people working there regularly put that paycheck right back into the slots. Kind of like working for the company store back in the old coal mining days.
I’m betting another Jack Abramof type fat cat is sucking down the gravy while the tribes are left gnawing the gristle from the bones.
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A little about me so you know what my intentions are based on. I am a retired military vet, I spent 21 plus years serving this great nation, supporting and defending the Constitution. My father did the same. As a child and as a serviceman I moved often. My grandfather fought in WWII. My life has been one of order and discipline. My family immigrated to the United States after the turn of the century from Germany to homestead in Iowa and from England to homestead in Colorado. They were ranch hands, mechanics, and share croppers. My family in Colorado lived in a sod house until grandpa returned from the war. I put myself through college while in the military. Always looking to better myself and improve myself.
To accomplish our mission men from all walks of life stood together, poor or rich, educated and unschooled, every race color and creed. My men (and just recently women) whether white, black, yellow, and yes red, were all one color GREEN. We were all different in one way or another but we were more the same.
Leading men you learn things. Failure is part of life and what you do with it makes the man. I called men before me who had failed, some were mature and some were not. Mature is not a function of age, but of growth and character. A young man of 18 can be more mature than a man of 40. When confronted about his actions the immature man points to his past to justify his actions, the mature man accepts responsibility for his actions learns from them, corrects them and move forward. If you master your behavior you are free, but if you don’t someone else will have to manage your behavior and you are not free.
In some of the dirt poor and oppressed lands I served I saw oppressed people, poor people. Soldiers killing the men, stealing the women, and conscripting the boys. People with no say on who and how they are governed. No say on what life they live, or if they live. But they endeavor for a better life. They stand up after being beaten down. They now are showing the world how they are a better lot than there circumstance.
After my military service ended I asked a co-worker and elder of the Northern Arapaho what I could do to help the people to work through these problems. I was told that there was nothing I could do because I was white. Although I don’t wear green, I see men by the strength and depth of their character. Bravery is not the man who is not afraid but the one who fears and still does what must be done. Put aside self and serve the greater cause. hii3oobee you are smart and respected man, as one of my sergeants would say, “Enough talking you know what to do now do it.” That is my charge to you “Do it” LEAD your people.
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Amen to that. Well said.
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dicki: i never said the casinos were not supposed to pay for the tribe…it was set up and approved to fund tribal operations…and provide jobs, and its doing that!
as for the placement…that area was chosen because of services…not because theres a low income village ” hey i know how we can make our casino successful…lets place it next to a low income housing site” not
the main site was choosen for the proximity to powerlines…a wastewater facility…accessability as in the highghway…and tourism potential…as in travelers on the highway…plus the arapaho tribe owned the land
the litle wind one was brought on because the tribe utilized portions of their failing grocery store and built on…then the shoshones wanted half the profits and when we refused…they got washington involved…we had to move…the tribe owned the land across the river…and so it went there
and for every one person that would not otherwise have a paycheck…and now has one thanks to the casino, and then puts it back in machines
there are fifty that use it to buy homes, cars, provide for their kids, got off welfare, pay rent, and have improved their life greatly
you act as if there wasnt poor people sinking thier last dollar into church bingos in lander and riverton for year before the tribe started
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sofa : your ignorance procedes you..as always…. i rest my case
those two jokers as you call them did no more wrong then the previous six…or other current four members
it appeared to me to be a personal attack based upon the scant proof i heard…considering every council member for the past decade has done the same thing…thats on what i seen in GC and the financial sheets provided on the others…not saying they didnt deserve it…but if they did then they shoulda got em all!!
as per casino in ethete …..it wasnt done to spite the shoshones…you need to hear the truth
when the arapaho won the right for a casino…they needed a site…the shoshones were against the tribe and refused to allow it on tribal lands…we were told to buy our own…we did
now years and years ago the shoshone council made a resalution to the effect since they had a business,a gas station and auto mechanics garage… that was on joint land…so they offered that each tribe will have a business zone …free from the other tribes interferance, each tribe would have the right for any type of business venture without the other tribe haeving a say…thiers would be where the gas station, and morning star manor are…our would be where the e store and laundry mat are
approved and legal
once they had thiers going…and it wasnt doing so good they looked at the old little wind casino at the store site and DEMANDED THE ARAPAHO TRIBE PAY THE 50% OF THE INCOME since they never approved the arapaho tribe to have a casino
this done in spite of thier own resolution dictating a portion of land for each tribe to run economic enterprise free from interferance from the other
now what business can give up 50% of the income and survive??
they then then made a offer…more like extortion…we will allow your casino in ethete on the land we agreed would be free from our interferance…in exchange for the arapaho giveing them land on the north side of riverton so they could build a huge new casino…in other words cutting our own throats
we declined…they then got NAGA involved and claimed the resolution didnt cover class 111 machines…and went to washington to force the tribe to cease all operations in ethete aside from bingo type machines..class 2
we were forced to pull all class 3 slot machines
and so since we owned the land where the present casino is…we built it so that we could run our casino without being extorted 50% of the revenue
it wasnt done in spite…it was done from necessity
you need to learn
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It’s possible that we’re all full of varying quantities of BS but Zoomie’s got his stuff wired tight.
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I can now see what you mean by the other 4 being jokers too. Since this is the Indictment Log hopefully we will see them as well as the two that just got the boot. Heard the two that just got the boot got a $109000.00 each for severence pay. But who am I to criticize.
On the other subject, there is no reason for a casino in Ethete other than to make it easier for the locals to blow a paycheck. Not many from Lander are going to it. I would be surprised to see anyone from Riverton there. Anyone traveling further is going to want to go to the big casino. Does it employ people? Yes. No question. Does it take in more than it pays out? Yes. No question. Thats the whole point of a business. So it’s easier for the people who have no business being at the casino to lose their money. But the money they lose goes back to them in the form of a social program? Where is the benefit? Would have been better to start busineses in the interior of the rez that actually provide products, services, and employment. Expand the one in Riverton to your hearts content. Your getting way more off-rez business out of that one.
So basically NAGA and Washington agreed with the Shoshones that the resolution didn’t cover class 3 machines? You see it how you want to and I’ll see it how I want. It was done to spite.
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hii3oobee
Im Sorry but your out of the loop obviously on your own tribal leaders. Yes they did get 109,000. Also if you were not out of the loop you would have known that most already knew the financial data on theses guys before and at GC. She didnt have to “spell” it out cause the docs were already out.
To see them lie to the asked questions when we all knew the truth is what sealed their fate. All this talk about the people and blah blah only to turn around and rip off the people minutes after they got the vote results. You will see in the coming DAYS not months what a mistake that was. We will have a all new council by the time this one ends, and some behind bars!
Also these 2 of your favorite council members are to blame for threats against the petitioner. You can chalk it up to what you want but the true colors are in your face, wake up!!
Sofa seems to be more in touch with the reality.
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OK THEN!
Now the petitioner needs to still do some things. KEEP ON IT. You gotta clean house. The other 4 are just as guilty dont matter who their kids are married to. They are jacked up just like the ones who got the boot. Dont make exxcuses.
Petitioner needs to not get the BIG HEAD and thinks she is all knowing. Petitioner needs to get legal advice from a joe thats knows. The General Council almost blew up in her face. She was a rookie on planning pro on talk. Gotta be solid girl.
Elliminate the ability of the ABC to pass the kinda stuff that happened Monday…..NOW! No more severance pay, what a load of S&^%.
Why didnt or dont ya put a stop pay on the two checks. Why is the booted ones signatures still on the hand out checks. REALLY?
They all gotta go petitioner! NOW!
They are showing the outside/real world we are a joke! Theives!
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Yes I agree NO MORE severance! How can you think you are worthy of $109,000 for six months of office? You were fired!!!!
To all the supporters of these 2 that recently got the boot, do you still support them after stealing that money? What happened to the concern for the tribe they were speaking of before the vote? You let down all the good people that had your back.
Everyone has been saying they have been hanging out at the tribal office and refused to leave. What a joke!!
The last council took severance when they didnt get back on as well. Im hearing $80,000. You cannot create your own severance package. Thats like insider trading. If we lose out on the election we stand to make MORE money than if we would have kept the job!!!
The makers, signers, and recipients of those checks are in BIG trouble.
They ALL need to go! The council, and all the people involved. We need to look at this current election committe as well.
AUDIT every program, the casino, the tribal office, everything!!!! Not with your paid auditors but with unbias auditors chosen by the concerned tribal members, BIA, FBI, and OIG.
Lets hope the FBI acts swiftly on this. Enough is enough. Yes these are tribal dollars, it belongs to the people not the business council. No sitting back on a long drawn out investigation. The last 2′s actions on the 109,000 is enough to open the door to everything.
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see sofa…this is where you go wrong…acting like your uninformed opinion is fact…your views are always in the negetive about the tribe
there is in fact a large percentage of patrons from lander, riverton and kinner and p,vill that frequent the little wind casino every day…so what im saying is…basically your wrong again!!
and they did start a business in the heart of ethete..its called a laundry mat…another is called a embroidary and silk screen shop…anther is a full buildup of the c store and cafe
basically naga said the agreement didnt specifically say class three machines are allowed…that was 20 years before the bingo even started….i know who you are by the way so i know which side you represent
but no matter how you cut it…but the facts are one of attempted extortion
the machines were not an issue at the c store location untill the rose casino wasnt making all the millions they said it would…mostly due to patron loyalty to the little wind casino…then it became an issue
if something is against the law or agreements you dont offer to ignore it for money do you?…the sbc said they would ignore the machines if we paid them half….sorry…they then agreed they would allow the machines if we gave them title to land 8 miles north of riverton…sorry were not gonna be bribed or extorted…we built a new one on land we already owned…end of story
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believe me…not out of the loop…i didnt know about the 109,000 until the night of the 16th
as per the financials…again this is where you ignore what im saying…IM NOT SAYING THE TWO DIDNT DO WRONG…IM SAYING IF THEY DID…THEN THEY ALL DID!!!!!
i read the draw downs of five of the six members….two, paid themselfs 20,000 for so called voluntary pay reduction…not fired
one member who took the 20,000 in november 2010, had over $25,000 in milage since june of 2010…including 2400 for milage for july and august of 2011…he also got a 5,000 dollar grant…and had 28,000 in grants, additional pay like the 20,000,and other payments to him that was not salary, not milage, not travel and not reimbursments
he wasnt fired..THE OTHER IS EQUALLY AS BAD
another issue would be…they were fired for a reason that they ignored a GC resolution…but then every single abc member including the previous six and the six before them…has ignored a clear and definitive GC resolution that was in a legal meeting to set their pay at 50,000
it was passed in GC, signed by the chairmen…and completely ignored by all council members…and still is to this day
whos saying they are my favortites?…i certainly never said that
i only say the same thing over and over…if the petitioner wanted to do what was right for the tribe….then THEN THEY ALL SHOULD HAVE BEEN LOOKED AT…if two are guilty then they all are to some extent
getting rid of two that did wrong while leaving the others that did the exact same thing alone does what?
IS MY DRIVING QUESTION
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Just curious did anyone hear of two other councilmen not removed that had been offered 10k to sign the 109k checks that the removed council people received?
I also hear a certain tribal member is going to the press to reveal that all 6 councilperson were dipping their hand in the pot and that pertinent information was being given to the FBI as this comment is being written.
Just wondering if someone else heard info to this effect?
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So the current council is a bunch of crooks, the last council was a bunch of crooks, and the council before that was a bunch of crooks? I obviously don’t know anything, but that seems like what you said above (when was the last time we had a competent council?). If that’s the case, do you know what the definition of insanity is? It’s doing the same thing again and again and expecting a different result each time. Seems like it’s time to try something new. The tribes obviously needs a system of checks and balances with teeth. So GC passes a resolution and the council gets to decide if they follow it or not? And the only concequence if you get called on it is maybe you get removed from office and then you just write yourself a severence check? Time to try something new.
Also curious about when NIGC might get involved in this. Were the actions of this council kept seperate from the casino?
Despite what you may think, I have no interest in seeing the tribes fail. Success isn’t going to come from doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different outcome. Time to try something new. Success isn’t going to come out of blame or pity. Time to try something new.
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i didnt here anything like that…about a 10k payment…but the fact remains…these two professed their loyalty to the tribe…that they were in it for the people…then imediatly create their own fall back fund…leaving the tribe short on payroll week….hows that in it for the people?
i know that they all had their hand in the cookie jar a few times…they should look at all this corruption since the false tribal adimister took office…
tribal workers with little pay…no raises..no milage reimbursments…no retirement…no insurance should look at these guys real hard…they get an enormous pay on top of all the perks like exorberant milage checks, so called donation reimbursments, huge grants …they make out like bandits…tribal workers suffer
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hii3oobee
Sorry if I got carried away with saying your “2 favorites” I was a little upset to say the least. I was getting fustrated because I believe concentrating on the question of fairness for just the 2 just confuses an effort to take action. I think I have explained this 2 you enough for u to see my point just a little bit?
To answer your question In my opinion it was handled correctly starting with the two. If it would have been them all at once, chances are the vote might not have been in favor of removal. Plus the petition was already out! It does not really matter how it started and if it was personal or not to me. The information was out and needed attention. Now they did the 109,000 assuring you the right decision was made. Give some damn credit to the ones sticking their neck out for you and your children!!!
It is not a wise decision to be without a council for any period of time which could allow BIA to step in and take control. This whole deal also sparked the true colors of the other 2 (signers of the checks)by them refusing to conduct tribal business since.
Those 2 that signed off on the 109,000 checks have abandoned their positions on the council. In resolution 6663 it states that if 3 meetings are missed they may be removed from office. This does not have to go through GC, they can be removed by the remaining 4 council.
I really dont understand how these crooks believe that what they have done is legal. They signed this agreement for severance after the petition came out. They knew this and calculated the response before hand, premeditated.
The only way I can make sense of this is they are trying to crash the whole tribe to make a statement. They have called funders and told them that the tribe will not be following the 5 year corrective action plan, because they were illegaly removed. This is not right on their part to call and speak on behalf of the tribe. They didnt invent this plan, it was executed by a consultant. We do not need them to follow it!
It just goes to show how deceptive they really are. They will sacrifice ALL members of the tribe for not getting their way. Right now I believe they want us to go under the BIA and for the tribe to crash and burn!!!!!!
When they stole the 109,000 it became very obvious they are only concerned with money.
One of the two (signers of the severance) has a warrant for his arrest, maybe thats why he has not shown up for work. I think this is a calculated plan to destroy our governement and borders treason.
TREASON:
the offense of acting to overthrow one’s government or to harm or kill its sovereignty.
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They sure cannot call it a revolution when they are collecting the kind of money they are and leaving the poor with yet another “we dont have the funds” to help you and your family with food or gas.
$218,000 would of fed many children and elders. It would of helped our sick with needed medicine. If they would have put as much effort into obtaining money for IHS or other programs as they have with their needs, well things would be better for all of us.
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If this would have happened in Riverton with the City Council or mayor, they would have been arrested already!
This is the most money stolen at once that I can think of out here. Two lump sums of 109,000. SAD!!!!
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from the papers i seen…if this were riverton all six would have been fired at the same time
we would not have been without a council…the GC could have had nominations from the people for temporary replacements untill a new election was held
im all for haveing honest people in office…and i follow GC resolutions as our law…however again unless this process is completed its a momentary victory for the honest arapaho
if the other four members who did the exact same thing are left in office…their gross abuse will continue
the only way to set the future of what we expect from our elected is to complete the removal of all who have abused our finances…and prevent even the past abusers from running for elected office again
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hii3oobee
Im starting to wonder if there is anyone out there for the job.
Our other 2 (signers) still have not showed for work. Im thinking they are too scared to face the music. Shamed out!
They better figure out a way to pay off that 10,000 loan before they just flake out on the tribe.
Make that the topic of your next meeting! Whoever would sit and listen to that BS about you all saving the tribe needs their heads examined!
Dont listen to the Riverton Ranger your source for more accurate news is right here at Riverton Radio!
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hammawi
Are you Arapaho? Do you have any stake in the Wind River Casinos? I heard you are not even from here. Are you the fellow that ran for the house in 2010?
You made some good points (on here)but your facebook posts tell a different story. You are spreading disinformation and trying to sell lies to the local press. You show that you are a supporter of the 2 council members that were voted off. My question is why? It is a free country and you are entitled to your own opinion, but I think it is more than that. They stole $218,000 + from us.
You cannot convince me that this was all a plot to cover up theft from the casino. Have you ever considered the fight was because the council was trying to pull more money from the casino when it is not feasable?
You also say that the casino has too many employees, we need those jobs and more. Thats part of the payback from having it.
You guys think its funny to give a load of crap to the press and try and create chaos outside out tribal governement building? The arapahos I speak to do not support those two crooks anymore. You are wanting to start a 527 political fund raising group out here, why?
Are you upset that the tribe would not give you a contract for your company Hammawi Development? Did someone mess up an energy contract for you?
Whats your motive here, just a sweet caring guy?
If you are an enrolled arapaho then all the power to you, if not you really should back off. You are putting wayyyy more effort into this than a concerned observer.
Do not believe for a minute that we are just stupid indians out here. There are smart folks keeping eyes on this!
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Oh ya maybe its because you are married into that family!
Hmm is this the only motive?
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